Jean-Luc
Well-Known Member
I don't know what he might have said elsewhere since I wasn't there, but I was there when he started speaking till he was forced to stop. During that period he did not defend rape or even mention it.
Anarchist Bookfair 2013 October 19th
- Thread starter jakethesnake
- Start date
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
There's so many 'wah, there's people younger than me' points in that post, isn't there? 'New Dogma', because you can't teach the old dogma new tricks. Reference to the Women Against Rape article in the graun as well, which http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/23/women-against-rape-julian-assange I seem to recall got the shit kicked out of it when it was published in August 2012 for being based on, er, not very fucking much.
No it doesn't.
No it doesn't.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I stayed at home and did five loads of washing and tidied up the house.
Hope you all had a great time.
I fucked off to Portugal for five days and made the best of the Eurozone crisis
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Sounds like there was quite a lot more in the way of shouting and rowing than just the incident involving the Australian dude outside. Twitter is full of anarcho-intersectionalists giving out about how terrible everything was, but as they tend to talk in terms of how generally fucked everything was, and how threatened it made them feel rather than in more specific terms, I'm not really clear what the other incidents were.
I suppose in an anarcho-intersectionalist versus Assangist-Guy Fawksist row we have to offer critical but unconditional support to the intersectionalistas.
I suppose in an anarcho-intersectionalist versus Assangist-Guy Fawksist row we have to offer critical but unconditional support to the intersectionalistas.
rioted
redundant
Drama queens, the lot of them.
ska invita
back on the other side
i was queuing at veggies and it was taking ages, so got talking to the guy infront, asked him if he'd been to any good talks - he highlighted this one, and did his best to explain what their problem with Harvey was - i didn't really understand a word of it, but seems like not only did it draw a crowd, at least some people understood it too. If you'd like to recap Fozzie, go for it!
Anarchism & Marxism talk was also packed with people not able to get in, though i thought the talk was a bit of a let down (mainly going over bolshevik shenannigans, historical stuff with little about the present). The fact so many people wanted to be there was the most interesting thing about it. I think anarchism has definitely had a big influence on young marxists, who are a lot less tolerant of hierarchical party structures for one. The issue that didnt really get gotten to is is there room or a desire for the relationship to go the other way too? The speaker (a communist, i forget which group) was trying to encourage anarchists to organise into a coherent whole (whether using the term 'party' or 'federation' or whatever), and felt that the movement was too fractured, but there wasnt really much time to get into it deeper.
Did anyone catch the Panthers? How was that?
Oh and the talk about Solidarnosc was fascinating. An opportunity lost and a lesson in power and corruption.
kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
One of the first questions to the two speakers related to the ex-Black Panther members concerned Eldrige Cleaver's conviction for rape and the speakers therefore alleged association with convicted rapists. The speaker's answer appeared to be taken on board by the questioner who did not follow up. Hearing about what happened later outside, I wonder why the two speakers were not shouted down and denied a platform? Perhaps it is easier to pick on a man standing on a bench than two people behind a desk in a lecture theatre. In both cases, denying someone a platform should be reserved for specific circumstances. I would consider it for Assange as he is a fugitive from sex offence allegations - I have strong doubts about denying any platform for people who wish to defend Wikileaks.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Were the speakers providing a platform for some sort of rape apologism. FFS think about what you just said.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Di Parkin was great on being an anarchist in the 60s. (And superbly facilitated, cough cough)
The meeting on World War 1 was brilliant. (The much missed Sihhi attended and was on great form).
The meeting on World War 1 was brilliant. (The much missed Sihhi attended and was on great form).
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Di is great full stop. I'm waiting for the BRHG group debrief later.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I will reiterate that I was there from 10am until about 6 and I saw no dramas.
From twitter you would think that the entire day was dominated by these huge slanging matches and that such and such an attitude is somehow representative of the event and the UK anarchist movement.
I think it's right that wikileaks people are challenged about Assange, though.
From twitter you would think that the entire day was dominated by these huge slanging matches and that such and such an attitude is somehow representative of the event and the UK anarchist movement.
I think it's right that wikileaks people are challenged about Assange, though.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
The WW1 guy from Bristol was great too. Something in the water down there...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
That's RB, lives next door to me. Bald cunt.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
LM from Newcastle talking of historians
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
The twitter intersectionalistas are asking for people who had oppressive experiences at the bookfair to send emails to one of them who is constructing a timeline of events. So we'll soon have the other side of the story to that "poor Catholic Anarchist dude" piece linked to above.
JimW
支那暗杀团
Other people borrow a power drill, but with these two it's all traffic in dusty pamphlets.
I can only imagine the chats over the garden fence.
fucking hell they're everywhere like rats
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
The more radical end of the intersectionalistas/privilegists on twitter generally identify as anarchists.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Prove it. What does radical mean here?
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
Prove it? Seriously? You still think I'm making this up even after the WSM published intersectionalist stuff, the AF women's caucus produced a lengthy intersectionalist document, etc?
Go take a look at twitter. People like Stavvers and Sam Ambreen, two of the most prominent UK twitter intersectionalists. What does it say in their profiles? Anarchist and intersectional. This is a real thing. There is a crossover between some more feminist inclined anarchists and some more left inclined intersectional liberals. There are many less prominent examples (neonblack1871, mediocre dave, just intersectional etc etc). This is why the intersectionalists are doing their timeline thing: quite a few of them were actually there.
By "radical" here I meant not the most impassioned but the most generally left wing, some of whom also try to fit this stuff into a class analysis (or perhaps try to fit a class analysis into this stuff).
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think the anarchist naming of itself is not accurate. (edit: on review i don't know what that means but i like it) I also still don't think it's happening. We've been through you misunderstanding the AF doc as policy a well. These others, passing - no commitment to organisation politics. In the sane way that people used to pretend to be marxist to scare their parents. This is not happening.
Nigel Irritable
Five, Ten, Fifteen Years
I fully understand that the AF women's caucus document was a women's caucus document and not AF policy. But the fact that it was produced by the women's caucus indicates that those ideas have some purchase in that milieu. Just as the WSM publishing intersectional material indicates the same, even though they haven't actually replaced their position papers with privilege politics. But the spread of these ideas has been faster in disorganised parts of anarchism, certainly.
As for "the anarchist naming of itself" bit, well that's another issue. A lot of these people are essentially liberals, adopting the anarchist tag. But there are also people coming out of "proper anarchism" in the same circles, having the same twitter conversations, with the same people. This stuff has a pull. I mentioned before being stunned to find an SP intersectionalist on twitter. Look at how it's at least tolerated on libcom of all places (and I'm sure you remember how identity politics stuff of any stripe used to go down there).
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
I actually properly laughed out loud at that.
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