Anarchist Bookfair 2013 October 19th

[tufty79]

of course, fucking hell it's mad!

my irony detector's on the blink tonight

 

[JHE]

It was good this year.

Yes. It was great.

For me, the highlight was the Anti-Militarist Men's Body-Painting Workshop.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Yes. It was great.

For me, the highlight was the Anti-Militarist Men's Body-Painting Workshop.

Yawn.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

the old ones are not always the best especially when it comes to nude anarchists

 

[Red Cat]

Half of it's online at lib-com (via the old John Gray site). But i'd suggest Albert Meltzers' autobiography which extends the narrative of native working class anarchism post war - you can get it on-line here or from AK or cheaper 2nd hand from a number of places.

Oh that looks like my kind of thing

 

[Red Cat]

We had to get there early this year cos the banner was needed for the stall, so having accomplished that mission plus a quick snoop we went and had breakfast in Spoons before going back. Met the lovely steph and we had a better look round again before back to Spoons with Steph.

The venue was good, much better and bigger with natural light and more rooms.

Wasn't it in Queen Mary again?

What was your stall cesare?

 

[cesare]

Wasn't it in Queen Mary again?

What was your stall cesare?

Yes, Queen Mary again. This year it was just off Library Square. It was the solfed stall, but not mine (I'm not a member).

It sounds a small thing, but I really liked the red and black bunting that they'd hung around the entrance and across the square

 

[Fozzie Bear]

There were people scanning it at libcom but they seem to have given up rather easily. And i did hear talk of a reprint a few years back (Maybe AK, can't remember) but tat also seem to have come to naught.

Freedom Press were going to do it. I emailed them a while back to ask about it but they never replied.

I think Libcom were asked not to scan the rest of it because of the reprint?

ETA: http://www.libcom.org/forums/history/john-quails-slow-burning-fuse-help-needed-07092011

 

[butchersapron]

Looks like it may have fallen between two stools then.

 

[TopCat]

I stayed at home and did five loads of washing and tidied up the house.

Hope you all had a great time.

 

[DaveCinzano]

five loads of washing

It's the drying that kills you, mind

 

[Jean-Luc]

And Assange supporters, recording film of people arguing with them about the rape allegations

From what I saw it was more the other way round. A group of feminists trying to stop someone with an Australian accent doing an outdoor meeting in the square by chanting "rape apologist" and "no platform". I thought anarchists used to defend free speech. It appears that some are only opposed to the state restricting this, prefering direct action as the way to do it.

 

[cesare]

From what I saw it was more the other way round. A group of feminists trying to stop someone with an Australian accent doing an outdoor meeting in the square by chanting "rape apologist" and "no platform". I thought anarchists used to defend free speech. It appears that some are only opposed to the state restricting this, prefering direct action as the way to do it.

If someone wants to broadcast rape apology outside the Bookfair, they can pretty much expect a reaction to it

 

[butchersapron]

From what I saw it was more the other way round. A group of feminists trying to stop someone with an Australian accent doing an outdoor meeting in the square by chanting "rape apologist" and "no platform". I thought anarchists used to defend free speech. It appears that some are only opposed to the state restricting this, prefering direct action as the way to do it.

Was s/he doing rape apologism?

And no, it's you and your SPGB with the fetishism of bourgeois free-speech. Note though, you don't have the same fetishism over freedom of response.

 

[Balbi]

I'm with no platforming Assange until he bottles up and goes to Sweden tbqh. But thanks, I had got one set of information, now I have another.

 

[Jean-Luc]

Was s/he doing rape apologism?

As far as I could hear he was congratulating Manning and Snowden for being whistleblowers as well as talking about his Irish-Australian background and various prisons he'd been in. He was quite amusing. At one point he said he had met a bank robber in prison who told him (he said) that people won't stop robbing banks until banks stop robbing people. Pity the meeting got broken. I think that, in the absence of Assange, they were taking it out on him. Is "No platform for wikileaks" now the policy? He used to speak in Hyde Park but his meetings there were never broken up.

 

[butchersapron]

So you don't actually know if he was doing rape apologism?

 

[cesare]

As far as I could hear he was congratulating Manning and Snowden for being whistleblowers as well as talking about his Irish-Australian background and various prisons he'd been in. He was quite amusing. At one point he said he had met a bank robber in prison who told him (he said) that people won't stop robbing banks until banks stop robbing people. Pity the meeting got broken. I think that, in the absence of Assange, they were taking it out on him. Is "No platform for wikileaks" now the policy? He used to speak in Hyde Park but his meetings there were never broken up.

How on earth can you term some random speaking outside the Bookfair as a "meeting"?

 

[Jean-Luc]

So you don't actually know if he was doing rape apologism?

I never heard him say anything like that and I doubt if he would. He'd have to be an idiot to do so.

 

[Jean-Luc]

How on earth can you term some random speaking outside the Bookfair as a "meeting"?

Well, he was standing on a bench or something with people standing or sitting and listening to him (just like at Hyde Park). Actually, his main theme was anti-war and anti-imperialism.

 

[butchersapron]

I never heard him say anything like that and I doubt if he would. He'd have to be an idiot to do so.

So what you're saying is that he might have been doing some public rape apologism but you don't really know?

 

[cesare]

Well, he was standing on a bench or something with people standing or sitting and listening to him (just like at Hyde Park). Actually, his main theme was anti-war and anti-imperialism.

He wasn't part of the Bookfair, he just decided to wander in to Queen Mary's for his own purposes. It's entirely up to Queen Mary's whether or not they let him do it on their grounds but he was clearly nothing to do with the event so your use of "meeting" is dishonest. And public Speaker's Corner is nothing like University grounds so the comparison is daft.

 

[Jean-Luc]

So what you're saying is that he might have been doing some public rape apologism but you don't really know?

No, I'm not. I listened to him for about 15 minutes before he was shouted down. He never said anything about rape. Why would he? That wasn't his subject. I have the advantage of having been there. I don't think much of your logic. It is true that at the meeting organised by the Marxist-Humanists on class consciousness the speaker might have been doing some public rape apology but I don't really know. This is when did you stop beating your wife stuff.

 

[butchersapron]

No, I'm not. I listened to him for about 15 minutes before he was shouted down. He never said anything about rape. Why would he? That wasn't his subject. I have the advantage of having been there. I don't think much of your logic. It is true that at the meeting organised by the Marxist-Humanists on class consciousness the speaker might have been doing some public rape apology but I don't really know. This is when did you stop beating your wife stuff.

You don't like my logic? Ok, let's get this straight. Did you hear the entirety of his shouting in the square?

 

[Jean-Luc]

He wasn't part of the Bookfair, he just decided to wander in to Queen Mary's for his own purposes. It's entirely up to Queen Mary's whether or not they let him do it on their grounds but he was clearly nothing to do with the event so your use of "meeting" is dishonest. And public Speaker's Corner is nothing like University grounds so the comparison is daft.

I don't know what your point is. I never said it was part of the event or suggested that it was an "official" meeting, but it was broken up by some of those attending the event, more the sort of thing you expect at an SWP rather than an anarchist event.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

It was the main bloke from Catholic Worker by the sound of it, and there has been a background from a few months ago of him respondng in a sexist way and attempting to bully some women who asked him quite politely to stop posting about all the Assange stuff on one of the email lists.

I didn't see the incident yesterday so no idea what happened then, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a conection to the previous spat.

 

[Jean-Luc]

You don't like my logic? Ok, let's get this straight. Did you hear the entirety of his shouting in the square?

Actually I did until the meeting was broken up. I left at 5pm so I don't know what might have happened after that but I can say categorically that until the meeting was broken he was only talking about war, imperialism, Manning, Snowden and his own Irish-Australian origins. If you've got any witnesses that say otherwise bring them forward.

 

[butchersapron]

How do I know I can trust what you say? Because, going from your posts on here, I don't. Can you say for sure he hadn't said anything before you arrived? Or as suggested above, elsewhere?

 

[Jean-Luc]

It was the main bloke from Catholic Worker by the sound of it

Yes, he did say he was a "Catholic anarchist" and that was his theme when he spoke at Hyde Park.

 

[cesare]

I don't know what your point is. I never said it was part of the event or suggested that it was an "official" meeting, but it was broken up by some of those attending the event, more the sort of thing you expect at an SWP rather than an anarchist event.

You characterised it as an outside "meeting" in the context of an event which had a timetable of meetings inside at the actual event. In short, the way you described it sounded as though it was part of the event but outside rather than inside. You also drew a comparison with Hyde Park, which is ridiculous as Speakers Corner is an established public space for anyone to get on their soapbox. Queen Mary's is not an established public space for people to get on their soapboxes.

He decided that wandering into a University and standing outside the Bookfair for his protelytising was a good idea. Obviously some people agreed or at least were listening. Other people didn't agree and their freedom of response was just as valid as his freedom of speech. If you pick an audience where a sizeable majority aren't particularly receptive, then you've no reason to whinge if it doesn't go down well