SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Or just, you know, don't kill people at all.
America going soft on capital punishment
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Or just, you know, don't kill people at all.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I was just coming to say that sort of thing, why muck about with electric chairs or nitrogen, why not just shoot them in the head with a handgun. Low cost high certainty, job done.
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Books, not bombs
Far too messy. America doesn't have the stomach for it.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I would have thought a momentary shot and job done - would be a lot better for the stomach than watching a man convulse for 14 long minutes as he is slowly asphyxiated while his lungs are filled with nitrogen.
hash tag
Books, not bombs
No blood or guts. It's more clinical. I'm sure they don't see it that way.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Capital punishment in China - Wikipedia
Firing squad, and more recently also lethal injection
8ball
1,200 lights
Legalised kidnapping is fine?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I was thinking of something like this:
en.wikipedia.org
File:Execution of Nguyen Van Lem.jpg - Wikipedia
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No such thing. That's an oxymoron.
ouirdeaux
Caring, Understanding, Non-judgemental Type
I've always found this objection to capital punishment illogical. As you say, by this reasoning, imprisonment is legalised kidnapping. Fines are legalised theft.
We accept -- at least most of us do -- that governments are permitted to do things to punish people who break laws with sanctions that would not be acceptable if private individuals carried them out.
The main objection to capital punishment, in my mind, is that innocent people might be put to death. Something it's hard to get around.
8ball
1,200 lights
Innocent people can also spend the rest of their life in prison.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
My principal objection to CP has nothing to do with what a person might deserve. It has to do with who and what we should want to be as people. I see abolition of CP as uncontionally good. It makes us better. To instruct one person to kill another in cold blood diminishes us all.
I would be implacably opposed even if magic could give us 100% knowledge of guilt. Nobody deserves to be turned into an executioner.
I would be implacably opposed even if magic could give us 100% knowledge of guilt. Nobody deserves to be turned into an executioner.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
In many ways, CP is worse. It is killing in the coldest blood possible. A death with a timetable, with procedures, carried out against a person who is already your prisoner and totally under your control.
It's just about the most shameful act I can imagine.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
True, but would it really be better to kill them?
8ball
1,200 lights
They’re still dead at the end, they just have a really shitty time in the long lead up to it.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
8ball
1,200 lights
Which of these people died in prison?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I guess the lesson there is that while you're still alive there is still a chance that you won't spend the rest of your life in prison.
I don't advocate 'life should mean life' either, fwiw. I like the Norwegian system. However bad the crime you have been convicted of, your incarceration will receive a review at some point (in Norway's case, that's after no more than 21 years). I think the Norwegians are better than us in this regard. They don't keep people locked up for decades on end for the sake of it. They only do so if they consider the person to be an ongoing danger to the rest of society.
Exactly, if the state fails to execute you, then you should be free to go or at least put on parole.
If you as a murderer fail to kill a person, you're more than likely not going to return to finish the job (I know it happens some times- gangsters etc), so why should the state have that luxury. Bastards!
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Your stance has always been the most difficult to argue against on this because it disregards most of the contentious aspects and simply boils down to "It makes us people who I don't want us to be", which is a pretty bulletproof individual position. It is however, precisely what separates judicial killing from murder. If a killing is to be considered by its seemliness, then there is the gulf in propriety to overcome between, for instance, the rape/murder of a child, and the execution of the perpetrator after judicial process, by majority consent of the people of the jurisdiction.
Nothwithstanding that, the point regarding the silly "legalised murder", "legalised kidnapping", etc, remains. The acts are legally defined and by definition must be unlawful. If something is legalised it cannot be unlawful by any sensible measure.
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
hash tag
Books, not bombs
Where there is life there is hope List of exonerated death row inmates - Wikipedia
Kris's case is particularly troubling. Everything I have read says to me is innocent. he was on death row and has had that commuted to life
but he still shouldn't be there
Krishna Maharaj - Wikipedia
from Clive Stafford Smith "I’ve been involved in more than 400 capital cases over the years, and Kris’ is the greatest injustice of them all."
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I despise the Norwegian system and think that to give any hope whatsoever to people like Breivik, that they will ever be released, is an affront to their victims.
If "life" could truly mean life without parole, without exception (unless a MOJ is proven), my limited support of CP would reduce enormously, but there'd always be a risk that someone like you comes to power and eventually lets them out!
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8ball
1,200 lights
Where there is life there is hope List of exonerated death row inmates - Wikipedia
Kris's case is particularly troubling. Everything I have read says to me is innocent. he was on death row and has had that commuted to life
but he still shouldn't be there
Krishna Maharaj - Wikipedia
from Clive Stafford Smith "I’ve been involved in more than 400 capital cases over the years, and Kris’ is the greatest injustice of them all."
With every miscarriage of justice something is lost permanently - how much and what is lost is purely a matter of degree.
Decades of someone’s life may be lost permanently, even if they are later found innocent. They may live under a pall of suspicion even after their release. Or of course they may just die in prison.
The answer to this is to address the causes of miscarriages of justice rather than imprison them with your fingers crossed behind your back and hope they aren’t found innocent later.
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