America going soft on capital punishment

[Ax^]

Ok. The argument in favour of capital punishment.

hmm has any country that uses capital punishment ever eliminated violent crime or murder

did the Duterte little experiment in the Philippines eliminated drug addicts

both answer known

Capital punishment is not a deterrent it just a form of retribution

 

[Spymaster]

It also means that you see the killing as less of an evil than that of releasing reformed prisoners after a lengthy stretch. Which isn’t very easy to argue with, but I think is worth framing in these terms since it values retribution above any possibility of reconciliation or restoration.

I think you edited this bit in.

Absolutely. I couldn't give a fuck if Anders Breivik was considered by some to be thoroughly reformed and able to spend the rest of his life saving kittens and curing cancer.

He killed 70 kids.

Again, the idea of him ever being considered "reformed" disgusts me.

 

[8ball]

I think you edited this bit in.

Absolutely! I couldn't give a fuck if Anders Brievik was thoroughly reformed and able to spend the rest of his life saving kittens and curing cancer. He killed 70 kids.

Again, the idea of him ever being considered "reformed" disgusts me.

Breivik is certainly a disgusting character. Re-instituting CP would not only affect Breivik, obv.

I’ll try and go easy on the edits - it’s a side effect of me thinking of more things as I go, plus my phone has been doing some wonky stuff with the text.

 

[likesfish]

Because breivik in 50 years won’t be the same breivik whose locked up at the mo.

 

[Spymaster]

Because breivik in 50 years won’t be the same breivik whose locked up at the mo.

So what?

He'll still be the same Breivik who shot 70 kids.

 

[8ball]

Because breivik in 50 years won’t be the same breivik whose locked up at the mo.

He’ll be 15 years past mean life expectancy, for starters.

 

[8ball]

So what?

He'll still be the same Breivik who shot 70 kids.

You’re both right.

 

[PTK]

I think that a distinction could be made between those who kill for political reasons and those who do not.

 

[8ball]

I think that a distinction could be made between those who kill for political reasons and those who do not.

In what way? In that the former get considered to be worse crimes, do you mean?

 

[PTK]

In what way? In that the former get considered to be worse crimes, do you mean?

Yes. Brevik could be condiered much more dangerous, because he sought to influence people to carry out similar acts.

 

[8ball]

Yes. Brevik could be condiered much more dangerous, because he sought to influence people to carry out similar acts.

Ok, so it’s not the politics as such so much as the attempted incitement of others?

Meaning you could make a similar argument for religious motivations or anything attempting to inspire a group?

 

[likesfish]

I think that a distinction could be made between those who kill for political reasons and those who do not.

It depends provos got let out as there was a settlement.
Political killings as part of an organised group one thing negotiating is possible.
Random jihadists Nazis the loon with the ai girlfriend who tried to kill the queen.
Etc politics might explain their actions but there’s no negotiating with “leaderless resistance”

 

[PTK]

Ok, so it’s not the politics as such so much as the attempted incitement of others?

Meaning you could make a similar argument for religious motivations or anything attempting to inspire a group?

I regard "religious motivation" as a form of political motivation.

If someone is killed with a view to intimidating a whole group of people that is worse than other kinds of killing.

 

[8ball]

If someone is killed with a view to intimidating a whole group of people that is worse than other kinds of killing.

Including if, say, someone from Antifa bashes a fascist’s head in during a fight that has broken out at a protest?

 

[Pickman's model]

I regard "religious motivation" as a form of political motivation.

If someone is killed with a view to intimidating a whole group of people that is worse than other kinds of killing.

Not necessarily - context as 8ball points out is everything

 

[PTK]

Not necessarily - context as 8ball points out is everything

Yes, agreed, I was not being precise enough.

 

[Spymaster]

I regard "religious motivation" as a form of political motivation.

If someone is killed with a view to intimidating a whole group of people that is worse than other kinds of killing.

Murder Motive Top Trumps is pointless.

Was the murder of Jo Cox, worse than the murders committed by Anthony Russell, because it was politically motivated?

 

[hash tag]

Another innocent being sent to his maker. But as the article states, this is possibly not the best way to put an end to these deaths

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.

www.pressreader.com

 

[Dystopiary]

Another innocent being sent to his maker. But as the article states, this is possibly not the best way to put an end to these deaths

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.

www.pressreader.com

From the Texas Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty following the state execution of Ivan Cantu:

On February 28, 2024, the State of Texas put Ivan Cantu to death despite grave doubts about the integrity of his conviction and widespread calls to stop his execution, including from members of the Collin County jury that sentenced him to death in 2001. Cantu maintained his innocence throughout his two decades on death row.

Newly discovered evidence, which was not heard by the jury and never considered by any court, exposed multiple falsehoods in the testimony of the main witness against him at trial.

TCADP

 

[Dystopiary]

The Texas Defender Network, who campaign against state execution, have released a report on race and the death penalty in Harris County, where there's a long history of racial prejudice, and where the majority of death sentences in Texas are handed down.

In the report, the TDN state that of the last 21 people sentenced to death in Harris County, 20 of them—or 95 percent—have been people of color.

Since November 2004, 15 sentences have been against Black men. Three of those death sentences have since been permanently overturned, representing at least a 20% error rate in Harris County’s pursuit of death sentences against Black men sinceNovember 2004.

Appellate briefs or post-conviction applications have been filed in 19 of the 21 death penalty cases. In filings from 17 of those cases, there are allegations that race influenced the trial or resulting death sentence in some way.

There's also strong evidence that Harris County excludes Black people from jury service.

The report is here in PDF form:

https://www.texasdefender.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/TDS-Harris-County-Report-2024_WEB.pdf

And there's an article about it in the Texas Observer here:

‘It’s the South’: Harris County Sends 15 Times More Black Men to Death Row than White

 

[hash tag]

. Cantu maintained his innocence throughout his two decades on death row.
It's rare for a guilty person to do this, if ever.

Newly discovered evidence, which was not heard by the jury and never considered by any court, exposed multiple falsehoods in the testimony of the main witness against him at trial.
This happens much more than it should.

As #dystopiary reports, there is no equality in the legal system. It's down to race and money.

 

[hash tag]

Another reason, if any were needed that capital punishment is wrong. From Reprieve

"Reprieve has just released new and shocking evidence that Black people had a 220% higher chance of suffering a botched lethal injection execution than white people."

 

[Dystopiary]

Texas sources its execution drugs from a pharmacy with a history of safety violations.

It's called Rite-Away Pharmacy.

According to inspection documents from the Texas State Board of Pharmacy, Rite-Away was cited more than a dozen times over the past decade. Over the course of multiple inspections, the pharmacy repeatedly failed to maintain clean and sterile facilities and failed to keep complete and correctly labeled records and drugs in stock, among other violations.

Federal authorities alleged another Rite-Away branch, owned by the same family, “fueled and profited from the opioid epidemic” and was implicated in the overdose death of a patient.

More here:

https://www.npr.org/2024/07/10/g-s1...-pharmacy-prepared-drugs-for-texas-executions

 

[Dystopiary]

There's a petition to save a man from execution for a crime that didn't occur.

He's been on death row for 20 years.

Robert Roberson is an innocent father with autism who has spent over 20 years on death row in Texas for a crime that never occurred. Mr. Roberson was committed to being a present father to his chronically ill two-year-old daughter Nikki when he was granted custody in November 2001. Tragically, Nikki passed away from prior medical conditions after a short fall from bed, and Mr. Roberson was wrongfully convicted of her death.

Mr. Roberson was a special education student when he dropped out of school after the ninth grade. He had undiagnosed autism spectrum disorder. Hospital staff did not know Mr. Roberson had autism and judged his response to his daughter’s grave condition as lacking emotion. Mr. Roberson was prosecuted, convicted, and sentenced to death using a now-discredited version of the Shaken Baby Syndrome (SBS) hypothesis.

The overwhelming medical and scientific evidence now shows that Nikki died of accidental and natural causes. Mr. Roberson’s innocence case is attracting growing and widespread support from eminent scientists, doctors, faith leaders, innocence groups, former federal judges, best-selling novelist John Grisham, and the lead detective who testified for the prosecution, who now believes he contributed to an innocent person being sent to death row.

Stop the Oct. 17 execution of Robert Roberson, an innocent father

 

[Dystopiary]

A man is due to be executed next week, even though DNA proves he didn't commit the crime.

The case against Marcellius Williams was based on the unreliable testimony of two witnesses who were incentivised by promises of leniency in their own pending criminal cases and reward money.

Who Is Marcellus Williams: Man Facing Execution in Missouri Despite DNA Evidence Proving Innocence

There's a petition to halt the 24th September execution of Mr Williams:

Stop the Sept. 24 Execution of Marcellus Williams, an Innocent Man - Innocence Project

 

[hash tag]

Has a petition against a specific person's execution ever worked. I've signed similar petitions in the past and written letters to people to no avail. This were cases where I was convinced of the person's innocence. The only result was Krishna Maharaj being transferred from DR to life, where he died.

 

[_Russ_]

And cops have never lied to get a conviction.

They used to but have commited to stop doing that sort of thing next week...ok give us a fortnight we're on it ...look you can't change the ethos of large organisations just like that...next year we promise

 

[hash tag]

He was an innocent man. It happened, so sad.

South Carolina executes first man in 13 years despite new evidence of innocence

Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah, 46, killed by lethal injection days after state’s key witness recanted critical testimony

www.theguardian.com

 

[freshapple]

He was an innocent man. It happened, so sad.

South Carolina executes first man in 13 years despite new evidence of innocence

Khalil Divine Black Sun Allah, 46, killed by lethal injection days after state’s key witness recanted critical testimony

www.theguardian.com

He murdered someone in prison tho

 

[hash tag]

He murdered someone in prison tho

Should he have been there in the first place?