Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[J Ed]

https://twitter.com/JamesBrioche/status/328545247456010240

lol, got blocked by the anarcho-nonce

 

[SpineyNorman]

https://twitter.com/JamesBrioche/status/328545247456010240

lol, got blocked by the anarcho-nonce

I really couldn't resist - I know it's a bit immature but he was asking for it.

 

[sihhi]

There were plenty for Mussolini though. Not just Lewis, but Yeats and Pound and arguably Eliot, not to mention most of the Italian Modernists.

Again this is different to what frogwoman wrote suggesting these New Inquiry people would be fascists in 1930s - it's a ludicrous stretch from four artistic figures - and are they all "bohemian" anyway?
Can't a figure like Eliot simply be a reactionary anglican Tory? And Yeats simply the right wing of Irish nationalism?
Ezra Pound moved to Italy in 1924 to be a Mussolini supporter there.
Wyndham Lewis is a different type of figure again to the New Inquiry - he wrote The Apes of God to mock the British intellectual flirtation with left-wing politics: CPGB and Labour Party (becoming very 'left-wing' after the Ramsay Macdonald betrayal).
The Italian modernists I don't know - can you give some examples of them and their ideas?


IIRC elements of the British Labour Party weren't averse to Italian fascism in 1924 commending its social and housing programmes - but to suggest X in the Labour Party
(Edit: meaning today in the labour Party) would have supported fascism makes no sense.

Malcolm Harris supported Obama in 2008 as did Molly Crabapple there's zero indication of any kind of tendency apart from leftism.

 

[Idris2002]

Again this is different to what frogwoman wrote suggesting these New Inquiry people would be fascists in 1930s - it's a ludicrous stretch from four artistic figures - and are they all "bohemian" anyway?
Can't a figure like Eliot simply be a reactionary anglican Tory? And Yeats simply the right wing of Irish nationalism?
Ezra Pound moved to Italy in 1924 to be a Mussolini supporter there.
Wyndham Lewis is a different type of figure again to the New Inquiry - he wrote The Apes of God to mock the British intellectual flirtation with left-wing politics: CPGB and Labour Party (becoming very 'left-wing' after the Ramsay Macdonald betrayal).
The Italian modernists I don't know - can you give some examples of them and their ideas?

IIRC elements of the British Labour Party weren't averse to Italian fascism in 1924 commending its social and housing programmes - but to suggest X in the Labour Party would have supported fascism makes no sense.

Malcolm Harris supported Obama in 2008 as did Molly Crabapple there's zero indication of any kind of tendency apart from leftism.

You and your "facts" and "logic".

 

[phildwyer]

The Italian modernists I don't know - can you give some examples of them and their ideas?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Tommaso_Marinetti

 

[andysays]

Again this is different to what frogwoman wrote suggesting these New Inquiry people would be fascists in 1930s - it's a ludicrous stretch from four artistic figures - and are they all "bohemian" anyway?
Can't a figure like Eliot simply be a reactionary anglican Tory? And Yeats simply the right wing of Irish nationalism?
Ezra Pound moved to Italy in 1924 to be a Mussolini supporter there.
Wyndham Lewis is a different type of figure again to the New Inquiry - he wrote The Apes of God to mock the British intellectual flirtation with left-wing politics: CPGB and Labour Party (becoming very 'left-wing' after the Ramsay Macdonald betrayal).
The Italian modernists I don't know - can you give some examples of them and their ideas?

IIRC elements of the British Labour Party weren't averse to Italian fascism in 1924 commending its social and housing programmes - but to suggest X in the Labour Party would have supported fascism makes no sense.

Malcolm Harris supported Obama in 2008 as did Molly Crabapple there's zero indication of any kind of tendency apart from leftism.

See all the previous stuff about Futurism.

So supporting Obama makes you a leftist?

And I suggest you go back and read the Orwell quote which Idris posted (can't remember where that comes from originally. Anyone help me out?)

 

[Idris2002]

See all the previous stuff about Futurism.

So supporting Obama makes you a leftist?

And I suggest you go back and read the Orwell quote which Idris posted (can't remember where that comes from originally. Anyone help me out?)

Road to Wigan Pier.

And I don't think sihhi is totally off the wall. I think that era is different enough from our own to make the drawing of direct analogies difficult at best.

 

[sihhi]

See all the previous stuff about Futurism.

So supporting Obama makes you a leftist?

And I suggest you go back and read the Orwell quote which Idris posted (can't remember where that comes from originally. Anyone help me out?)

The futurists yes they were supporters of Mussolini's fascism - anything to indicate the New Inquiry is like futurist art?

Malcolm Harris was in the progressive end of the coalition that voted for Obama as Democrat - just like Gus Hall did on the basis of him being more likely to be pressured in that kind direction. Not my position- but it's nothing to do with bowing down to movements like fascism.
Harris since then has become more explicitly anti-state and anti-electoral commending prison riots and Greek anarchists as "awesome".

Orwell quote - a group of middle-class people in the 30s who might be happy to accept either Fascist or Communist rule and be commissars for them depending on what might happen in a future (at the time) war. Again why the parallel with the New Inquiry?

 

[barney_pig]

Loads of flirtations with fascism and corporativism within the middle class sections of the ilp in the late twenties and early 1930s, it was there that Moseley developed his ideas and gained his initial supporters. Stephen dorril's book blackshirt is full of them.

 

[barney_pig]

The futurists yes they were supporters of Mussolini's fascism - anything to indicate the New Inquiry is like futurist art?

Malcolm Harris was in the progressive end of the coalition that voted for Obama as Democrat - just like Gus Hall did on the basis of him being more likely to be pressured in that kind direction. Not my position- but it's nothing to do with bowing down to movements like fascism.
Harris since then has become more explicitly anti-state and anti-electoral commending prison riots and Greek anarchists as "awesome".

Orwell quote - a group of middle-class people in the 30s who might be happy to accept either Fascist or Communist rule and be commissars for them depending on what might happen in a future (at the time) war. Again why the parallel with the New Inquiry?

The cult of youth( a particular sort of youth) the necessity of Action!, the distaste for the sheep, and belief in their own position as a elite, born to be leaders.

 

[andysays]

Road to Wigan Pier.

And I don't think sihhi is totally off the wall. I think that era is different enough from our own to make the drawing of direct analogies difficult at best.

I agree that the drawing of direct analogies is difficult, but I got the impression that sihhi was criticising frogwoman for what he thought she said/meant rather than what she did say/mean, or maybe what I thought she said/meant.

Although we shouldn't make a direct and literal analogy, I think the Orwell passage you quoted is, in general, totally applicable to the stuff we're discussing on this thread, ie upper-middle class faux radicals who are actually ultimately and objectively anti-working class, so thanks for reminding us of it.

 

[J Ed]

The futurists yes they were supporters of Mussolini's fascism - anything to indicate the New Inquiry is like futurist art?

Malcolm Harris was in the progressive end of the coalition that voted for Obama as Democrat - just like Gus Hall did on the basis of him being more likely to be pressured in that kind direction. Not my position- but it's nothing to do with bowing down to movements like fascism.
Harris since then has become more explicitly anti-state and anti-electoral commending prison riots and Greek anarchists as "awesome".

Do you think that his being an Obama supporter had anything to do with him supporting Rahm Emanuel's encouragement of scabbing during the Chicago strike?

Sort of like how Hitchens used state socialist rhetoric like "revolution from above" to justify neoconservative foreign policy

 

[sihhi]

The cult of youth( a particular sort of youth) the necessity of Action!, the distaste for the sheep, and belief in their own position as a elite, born to be leaders.

ie very tenuous general aspects of many political theories in the 1920s and 1930s - revanchist Catholic renewal, Rexism, Chinese student movement, Balkan nationalism, middle-class university Communism, anti-colonial nationalism, APRA in Peru, republicanism in Turkey/Egypt/Iran etc. Nothing to pin it on fascism.

 

[sihhi]

Do you think that his being an Obama supporter had anything to do with him supporting Rahm Emanuel's encouragement of scabbing during the Chicago strike?

No I don't. As I half explained I see him as a situationist-anarchist since he left university and faced some unemployment.

 

[J Ed]

No I don't. As I half explained I see him as a situationist-anarchist since he left university and faced some unemployment.

Right, sinus infection is destroying my memory I think

I don't know, it still seems possible to me.

 

[rekil]

someone give me £5k and I'll get on a plane to the states and batter Malcolm Harrris personally

I'll do it for £500 - sneak onto a container ship or something.

Its under control. We've had agent imposs1904 in place in manhattan for some time already.

 

[frogwoman]

Road to Wigan Pier.

And I don't think sihhi is totally off the wall. I think that era is different enough from our own to make the drawing of direct analogies difficult at best.

yep.

 

[sihhi]

He should have a chance to defend himself. The more LP doesn't come back to answer the questions the more the credibility is torn.

Can someone who still can - send this out to him?

 

[Favelado]

The Hacienda Must Be Shilled.

 

[Favelado]

He should have a chance to defend himself. The more LP doesn't come back to answer the questions the more the credibility is torn.

Can someone who still can - send this out to him?

Done that for you, cuz.

 

[andysays]

Done that for you, cuz.

Gets popcorn...

 

[sihhi]

Gets popcorn...

He is a very good internet user though - the Radiohead rumour, building up the New Inquiry by social media. I'm worried in case he sends someone who is not him as a baiting monkey to express completely foolish views so we are suckered into thinking it's him then he exposes the prank to prove that people posting really are like Earl Cornwallis and unfairly think the worst of Americans.

 

[Favelado]

He is a very good internet user though - the Radiohead rumour, building up the New Inquiry by social media. I'm worried in case he sends someone who is not him as a baiting monkey to express completely foolish views so we are suckered into thinking it's him then he exposes the prank to prove that people posting really are like Earl Cornwallis and unfairly think the worst of Americans.

You can be the mod for that if you're following the thread closely though sihhi. In any case, as long as everyone plays the ball and not the man they'll be on safe ground. Hmmm.

 

[andysays]

He is a very good internet user though - the Radiohead rumour, building up the New Inquiry by social media. I'm worried in case he sends someone who is not him as a baiting monkey to express completely foolish views so we are suckered into thinking it's him then he exposes the prank to prove that people posting really are like Earl Cornwallis and unfairly think the worst of Americans.

If anyone looking like this turns up

we'll know your fears were justified...

 

[sihhi]

You can be the mod for that if you're following the thread closely though sihhi. In any case, as long as everyone plays the ball and not the man they'll be on safe ground. Hmmm.

Having posted all that I doubt he'll come.
What I mean is this interview from a month ago even him?

What's your problem?

I love bad bitches, that's my fucking problem.

But he could express his own "Righteous hate" here if he wanted to.




.

 

[weepiper]

A conversation with the EDL about privilege-checking

 

[SpineyNorman]

You can be the mod for that if you're following the thread closely though sihhi. In any case, as long as everyone plays the ball and not the man they'll be on safe ground. Hmmm.

If I'm not allowed to abuse him and call him a cunt at least once in every sentence I'm not fucking playing

 

[SpineyNorman]

A conversation with the EDL about privilege-checking

Those seem like eminently sensible replies from the EDL.

I now want to take some of the student intersectionalistas it is my misfortune to know to my mum and dad's next time I go, get them to talk intersectionality to the old folks down at the allotments. It would be fucking hilarious.

 

[sihhi]

Those seem like eminently sensible replies from the EDL.

I now want to take some of the student intersectionalistas it is my misfortune to know to my mum and dad's next time I go, get them to talk intersectionality to the old folks down at the allotments. It would be fucking hilarious.

Will the allotments committee be introducing hand signals or instituting a progressive stack?

 

[Favelado]

Well he replied to me with a link for the Google image search results for the battle of Yorktown. As he's making a hasty retreat, I've replied with this which is definitely either moderately funny or shite. I guess he's not interested then. Fair enough.

e.