Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Geri]

No BlackGuys are involved in this thread.....your all having a pointless discussion!!

Interesting that your focus is on black men. What about women, eh?

 

[butchersapron]

I was wondering about Mike Danson and "progressive media", the owner of the New Statesman, the one who ordered the de-recognition of the NUJ. Given this sort of thing is typical of harder edged companies who don't think twice about pushing the boundaries (see also their use of unpaid interns) if they were not above a little bit of tax avoidance as well? The BBC/civil service style possibly - that is paying their employees via a personal company that (off-payroll engagements ) that leaves the employee paying corporation tax (21%) rather than the higher income tax they would be liable for. Anyone know anything about how they/he/them operate?

 

[Citizen66]

Interesting that your focus is on black men. What about women, eh?

Guys can sometimes mean women too in a collective sense.

 

[rosecore]

I wish I could get paid to write about a Tumblr site. The issue is once again misogyny online, this blog has decided to publicly shame men on the website who object to being 'friend zoned' and lament against 'sluts'.Well, not always.

The site is compelling, in a gross sort of way. Reading it fills you with a righteous rage that quickly starts feeling icky when you realise a few of the chaps on there haven't actually said anything overtly sexist - they're just a bit overweight and ungroomed and feeling sorry for themselves and wondering why 'women' (by which they mean 'women they fancy') won't consider having sex with 'nice guys' (by which they mean 'men very much like me', by which they mean ‘me’).
For a lot of these ‘nice guys’ who can’t get dates, it looks like nothing a shave and a bit of positive self-talk couldn't cure. Unfortunately for those of us who believe in the basic decency of the species, many of these chaps seem instead to have translated their fear of rejection, their loneliness and humiliation, into active misogyny, a savage self-pitying resentment which must make perfect sense at 4am on a lonely weeknight whilst flicking between OkCupid and RedTube.com but which makes rather less when exposed to the cold pixel glare of internet disapprobation.

http://www.newstatesman.com/laurie-penny/2012/12/note-nice-guys-ok-cupid

Yes, there are plenty of guys on there who express no sexist or misogynistic viewpoints, some are clearly deeply shy, self-concious, and probably struggle socially to engage with women. (I'm making my own broad assumptions here). Dating sites are hard work, I've had my ups and downs with them, rejection comes far easier when the ratio of men to women is heavily favoured to the former. So, that lovely message you spent ages writing might not get read or responded to. Yes, both men and women have every right to not respond to your profile for number of reasons. Writing your profile can also be a challenge - do I write paragraphs? Do I try to be humorous? Will I wonder in the obscurity of a few words?

For a lot of guys (including myself in the past) there is no guide for writing these profiles. I will make no excuses for the unsavoury profiles featured on that Tumblr. Out of the screenshots of profiles they no may longer exist (or been updated) she makes a gross generalisation that in this 'rage' they are all turning to porn. No wonder they objectify!

There is a really nasty bullying tone to this Tumblr, it seems any person who looks overweight is fair game, despite there being a lack of misogyny involved.
http://niceguysofokc.tumblr.com/post/38276039209
http://niceguysofokc.tumblr.com/post/38272747127/can-we-get-some-sorrowful-violin-music-in-the
http://niceguysofokc.tumblr.com/post/38306352421/submitted-by-disgustinggirl
http://niceguysofokc.tumblr.com/post/38385901801/they-only-see-them-for-procreation
http://niceguysofokc.tumblr.com/post/38263257125/that-was-almost-a-sentence-good-work
http://niceguysofokc.tumblr.com/post/38232700328/oh-no
http://niceguysofokc.tumblr.com/post/38223671207

For the good work it does, this Tumblr is really rather nasty, this article is an excuse for Laurie to be self-indulgent about a blog that doesn't deserve half the praise it does.

I even put it to her on Twitter.

Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
Here's the link: http://niceguysofokc.tumblr.com/

stunned by how much of a blind rage this 'friend zone' thing seems to send guys into.


21 Dec Steve Rose ‏@steveplrose
@PennyRed Quite a few don't show any 'blind rage' at being 'friend zoned'. Just cruel public shaming for the sake of some misogynists.


21 Dec Laurie Penny ‏@PennyRed
I don't think either gender comes off particularly well in that tumblr, to be honest. @steveplrose

I'm slightly disappointed she hasn't been more critical of some of the posts on the blog. Especially after that comment.

 

[BlackJamaican]

Interesting that your focus is on black men. What about women, eh?

I didn't say black men....comon Guys....my name is Hector Reva and this my life!

 

[Athos]

I was wondering about Mike Danson and "progressive media", the owner of the New Statesman, the one who ordered the de-recognition of the NUJ. Given this sort of thing is typical of harder edged companies who don't think twice about pushing the boundaries (see also their use of unpaid interns) if they were not above a little bit of tax avoidance as well? The BBC/civil service style possibly - that is paying their employees via a personal company that (off-payroll engagements ) that leaves the employee paying corporation tax (21%) rather than the higher income tax they would be liable for. Anyone know anything about how they/he/them operate?

I don't know about them specifically, but I'd be surprised if any company of that size did not organise its affairs to minimise its liability to tax.

And I wonder whether ths line of thinking highlights the 'bad' capitalists, whereas the reality is that what they do (i.e. anything they can to maximize profits, no matter the social cost) is inherent in capitalism per se.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't know about them specifically, but I'd be surprised if any company of that size did not organise its affairs to minimise its liability to tax.

And I wonder whether ths line of thinking highlights the 'bad' capitalists, whereas the reality is that what they do (i.e. anything they can to maximize profits, no matter the social cost) is inherent in capitalism per se.

Bollocks to that, name and shame is the name of the game and i wanna play the game with you - there's no contradiction to having a having wider view of how things arise (and tax-avoidance is not really a structural motivating factor for capital as it goes) and wanting to nail specific individual or groups. Do you turn down wage rise unless all workers across all industries get the same?

 

[Athos]

Bollocks to that, name and shame is the name of the game and i wanna play the game with you - there's no contradiction to having a having wider view of how things arise (and tax-avoidance is not really a structural motivating factor for capital as it goes) and wanting to nail specific individual or groups. Do you turn down wage rise unless all workers across all industries get the same?

Yes. I suppose you're right, as long as people do recognise the bigger picture. My fear, having spoken to people in UKuncut is that this isn''t always the case. And, if it is to be one or the other, I'd rather see people trying to avoid the iceberg than rearranging the deckchairs.

 

[Firky]

This is getting odd now.

Amazon recommends me books by Molly and Laurie, and the Android's app store is suggesting that I subscribe to New Statesman. Fuck you Google and your cookies.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Some women can also be black even when they're not. Attitude is all.

Is this a joke?

 

[bluestreak]

he's welcome to it though. Always a poor mans genesis

the esistence of genesis makes us all poorer.

 

[bluestreak]

@rosecore i think that sire is hilarious and full of nice guys who get pissed off because they don't want to be just friends with women. also, you'll note that most of them think that no doesn't mean no, that there are times they are entitled to take sex, and so on and so forth. i think it makes some very good points about what some blokes think being a nice guy is.

 

[bluestreak]

No. It's a well-established fact. I could probably also be in the Rolling Stones or the Who without being able to play an instrument. As I say, it's all about attitude.

i agree with this. technically i'm a tubby white essex man, but in attitude i'm actually Bikini Kill. All of them. At once.

 

[bluestreak]

I've been in the Clash in my mind all the way through my adult life. The only black member of a leading 'punk' band.

wasn't that the thinking that led to Big Audio Dynamite?

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

No. It's a well-established fact. I could probably also be in the Rolling Stones or the Who without being able to play an instrument. As I say, it's all about attitude.

I find all this very reassuring. All my adult life I've considered myself the reincarnation of Antonio Gramsci, only with bionic limbs which make me a full on killing machine. I drink to dull the constant desire to wipe out the forces of reaction...because I took an oath never to use my powers unless there was a threat of immediate danger. And, of course, I'm black.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I didn't say black men....comon Guys....my name is Hector Reva and this my life!

You said "black guys". That kind of implies "black men", Hector.
For a PR person, you don't seem particularly diplomatic. More gaffe-prone.

 

[ViolentPanda]

the esistence of genesis makes us all poorer.

Just as the existence of Leviticus makes most of us worthy of death, bro.

 

[ViolentPanda]

wasn't that the thinking that led to Big Audio Dynamite?

Or "Big Audio Loadashite" as I generally think of them.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, that was down to me. I put the suggestion in a Christmas card to Mick Jones.

Even Hell won't take you after such a crime against music. You'll be doing your time in Purgatory, along with the unchristened, the supernatural beings and the tax collectors.

 

[equationgirl]

Even Hell won't take you after such a crime against music. You'll be doing your time in Purgatory, along with the unchristened, the supernatural beings and the tax collectors.

Just out of curiosity, where do the tories go if tax collectors end up in purgatory?

 

[lazyhack]

So, who else knows Laurie Penny's real name?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Just out of curiosity, where do the tories go if tax collectors end up in purgatory?

Nowhere. Their souls (if such shrivelled, maggot-ridden things can be called souls) are obliterated, removed from the Wheel of Life.

It's only fair.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So, who else knows Laurie Penny's real name?

Besides anyone who's read this thread, or can put 2 and 2 together from La Pennionara's many articles, you mean?

 

[lazyhack]

Besides anyone who's read this thread, or can put 2 and 2 together from La Pennionara's many articles, you mean?

Oh, is it also buried inside this 327 page 'she is not a person of note' epic?

 

[Orang Utan]

327 pages! It was only 208 last week!

 

[Red Storm]

it was on her wiki but its since been removed. You can see it in the history.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Oh, is it also buried inside this 327 page 'she is not a person of note' epic?

You really are a lazy hack, aren't you?

That's not what the thread is about, but hey, Heaven forfend you actually do a bit of research and read some of it so you know what you're talking about, eh?

Muppet.

 

[ViolentPanda]

327 pages! It was only 208 last week!

Don't worry, most of that is just pages and pages of people abusing you, mate.

 

[lazyhack]

You really are a lazy hack, aren't you?

That's not what the thread is about, but hey, Heaven forfend you actually do a bit of research and read some of it so you know what you're talking about, eh?

Muppet.

Sorry, will print it out now and try get through it over Christmas.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

its barnett.