Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Unless you're Orthodox in your Islam or Judaism, at which point viewing the two as interchangeable becomes a good reason to stone you to death.

Yeah, it depends how strict you are . . . But stoning to death?

 

[stethoscope]

.

 

[chilango]

Because she is famous. she appears on tv on a regular basis. she is mates with lots of other important famous people. and she is telling people like us that we are privileged? thats right, we are privileged over HER??

Exactly.

She lives, and has always lived, in a bubble.

And like David Cameron, simply cannot conceive that there is life outside this bubble.

Hence Cameron thinks that most "middle class" people are like him and his mates.

And hence Laura thinks she is the oppressed.

 

[bluestreak]

@bluestreak : I think LP is fond of labels, basically.

If she is attacking other feminists, does she want to be recognised/viewed as the only 'true' feminist in the village, the only one fighting the good fight against the patriarchy?

i dunno, i don't know what she wants. i do believe she believes that she is a revolutionary.

 

[sihhi]

I needed to get out of that place, and if you wanted to go out the front door and not in a box, you had to play by their rules. You had to smile and eat your meals. You had to be a good girl.

You're right I don't understand this bit either. If the anorexia treatment staff are imposing these rules that's a massive violation of medical ethics.

I needed to get out of that place, and if you wanted to go out the front door and not in a box, you had to play by their rules. You had to smile and eat your meals. You had to be a good girl. That meant no more trousers, no more going out with short hair and no makeup, a boyfriend as soon as possible, and learning to style your hair and do your eye-liner. It meant buying different dresses for different occasions, fitting yourself out to have men look at you with lust, learning manners, learning to dip your head and say “Please” and “Thank you” and “Gosh, I don’t know what to think about the war” and “No, one piece of chocolate cake will be more than enough for me.”

I am actually shocked that a patient was nudged or cornered to pair up with someone - to my mind it seems massively counter-intuitive to suggest anything like that to someone facing anorexia.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah, it depends how strict you are . . . But stoning to death?

You've clearly never walked through Muswell Hill after dark on a friday night, playing with a Zippo, have you?

 

[Steel Icarus]

Can anyone explain what this is all about?

Hugo Schwyzer "The End of Patriarchy is the BEGINNING of men's opportunity to stop being half-people and to become complete human beings"

which dear Laurie agreed with.

 

[barney_pig]

kosher is halal and halal is kosher - to most.

Who aren't Jewish or muslim

 

[Bakunin]

So, another risible ride through Laura's ill-informed opinions, then.

Surely 'Other people's opinions (well, the bits that aren't entirely fabricated anyway) 'borrowed' and then subtly altered so they seem sufficiently different to the original'?

You need some root-killer, mate. Sodium chlorate do you?

I tend to buy local, personally:

 

[chilango]

On the bright side...

...no one I know in real life has ever heard of her.

She has zero influence amongst the people that matter.

It's not like the mums at play group, or colleagues at work, or my neighbours ever say "hey Chilango! You read the latest Laurie Penny?"

She has never, and will never, be a part of working class struggle or movements of social change.

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

#I'm pretty sure she is East Europe origin Jewish (but non-observant) and also non-straight#

#isn't she Irish as well. or am i getting muddled.#

So she's kinda constructed of genes just as long as they've a history of oppression? Why no Armenian?


#Don't be fooled by the rocks that I got
I'm still, I'm still Penny from the block
Used to have a little, now I have a lot
No matter where I go I know I came from, from...erm...#

 

[Random]

"I needed to get out of that place, and if you wanted to go out the front door and not in a box, you had to play by their rules. You had to smile and eat your meals. You had to be a good girl."

Now she's channelling...erm...Jeanette Winterton? Maya Angelou?

"Look at me...I'm a victim too."
Who actually buys this shite? Do her admirers actually believe her...or do they accept that she's just telling 'mythological' truths'?...sorta feminist parables ...

she's saying she was sectioned, or subjected to some other kind of forced treatment. If that's true, then why not mythologise it and write up her experiences how she likes? There's little written by mental health system survivors.

 

[sihhi]

oh god, polyamorous too. fucking hell, it's like pseud-bingo. i was polyamorous for a while. i didn;t know i was. i was just putting it about. imagine the shock i had when someone pointed it out. identity nonsense. polyamorous just means you can't keep it in your pants and you want a word that gives you an identity for it, so that when your boy or girlfriend gets upset you can point out that you're polyamorous and they're oppressing you for it.

This suggests you might be guilty of monogamy privilege:

5) No one argues that my relationship orientation is impractical, unstable, incompatible with commitment, or otherwise effectively impossible to realize. No one argues that my relationship orientation works better in theory than in practice.

I have no opinion on the matter. I don't know anything about it at all.

 

[stethoscope]

#Don't be fooled by the rocks that I got
I'm still, I'm still Penny from the block
Used to have a little, now I have a lot
No matter where I go I know I came from, from...erm...#

 

[JimW]

Can anyone explain what this is all about?

Hugo Schwyzer "The End of Patriarchy is the BEGINNING of men's opportunity to stop being half-people and to become complete human beings"

which dear Laurie agreed with.

I get that and sort of agree with it tho no doubt would define patriarchy different and its exact place (not sure about 'half-people' either'), but basically take it to mean it does 99% of men no good to be in an unequal dynamic either.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Who aren't Jewish or muslim

No - to most Jews and Muslims (in the west anyway) these days. It has that sorta 'glow' about it.

 

[frogwoman]

Who aren't Jewish or muslim

if you're a practicing jew you're probably all right to eat halal meat and many do (although a lot don't), as the slaughter methods are basically exactly the same, but with kosher there's the milk/meat thing as well which the muslims dont have

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

"If that's true, then why not mythologise it "

Yeah, why not...people do that all the time...only they call it fiction.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

You've clearly never walked through Muswell Hill after dark on a friday night, playing with a Zippo, have you?

lol. nopes

 

[stethoscope]

This suggests you might be guilty of monogamy privilege:

I have no opinion on the matter.

My boyf (middle class, poly, queer) has already had this discussion with me, to which we haven't talked about since because I thought it was in itself all very privileged

 

[sam goloden]

On the bright side...

...no one I know in real life has ever heard of her.

She has zero influence amongst the people that matter.

It's not like the mums at play group, or colleagues at work, or my neighbours ever say "hey Chilango! You read the latest Laurie Penny?"

She has never, and will never, be a part of working class struggle or movements of social change.

Fucking bingo! Nine million posts to reach the right conclusion.

 

[spawnofsatan]

Can anyone explain what this is all about?

Hugo Schwyzer "The End of Patriarchy is the BEGINNING of men's opportunity to stop being half-people and to become complete human beings"

which dear Laurie agreed with.

She's a half man half biscuit fan?

 

[frogwoman]

where's that "toast privilege" blog?

 

[equationgirl]

You're right I don't understand this bit either. If the anorexia treatment staff are imposing these rules that's a massive violation of medical ethics.

I am actually shocked that a patient was nudged or cornered to pair up with someone - to my mind it seems massively counter-intuitive to suggest anything like that to someone facing anorexia.

Can you post a link to that please? I'd like to read that piece in its entirety.


Also, here's something she wrote for the Evening Standard in 2010. As someone who had anorexia as a teenager, this Evening Standard piece feels more 'real, more like it happened as she described it:
http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/health/life-tastes-better-than-skinny-feels-6757213.html

Here's an extract, to contrast with the extract you quoted:

As I watched the ambulance pull up underneath my window, returning Lianne to hospital, I realised that I had a choice: I could either choose to stay ill and become like Lianne, living out a withered, damaged half-life of hospital stays and self-starvation, or I could dare to contemplate the possibility of a different life. That night, I ate my first proper meal in more than two years.

Somewhat different...

 

[DotCommunist]

Who aren't Jewish or muslim

in the big house its better to go halal A) for sheer perverseness and annoyance

B) the meat is less likely to be sweepings from th slaughterhouse floor


Wonder if tommy is on the speshul wing? god knows he risks a twatting and worse from muslim inmates of the gen pop...

 

[Random]

I get that and sort of agree with it tho no doubt would define patriarchy different and its exact place (not sure about 'half-people' either'), but basically take it to mean it does 99% of men no good to be in an unequal dynamic either.

Yes, I also see that point. The male gender role is also a damaging role, policed with force and threats. The physical threats mostly coming from other men, of course...

 

[sihhi]

Can anyone explain what this is all about?

Hugo Schwyzer "The End of Patriarchy is the BEGINNING of men's opportunity to stop being half-people and to become complete human beings"

Hugo Schwyzer, as far as I can see, is someone who gets to stand on platforms like this:



because he used to take part in domestic violence but no longer

http://studentactivism.net/2012/01/22/hugo-schwyzer-is-still-doing-harm/

hence meaning he "shatters gender myths"

 

[Ronnie Rubashov]

She's a half man half biscuit fan?

All she wants for Christmas is the destruction of the patriarchy and a Dukla Prague away kit.

 

[sam goloden]

Wonder if tommy is on the speshul wing? god knows he risks a twatting and worse from muslim inmates of the gen pop...

He'll probably convert to Islam before he comes out. Isn't that the way the script usually goes?

 

[JimW]

Yes, I also see that point. The male gender role is also a damaging role, policed with force and threats. The physical threats mostly coming from other men, of course...

I'm such a liberal I even think being in the boss class does people no good but they don't realise.