Alex Callinicos/SWP vs Laurie Penny/New Statesman Facebook handbags

[Bakunin]

I think what's pissing her off is that she's discovered that there's a slightly more radical left than hers already in existence, and she doesn't like it.

Well, it does rather threaten her self-appointed status as some sort of radical and possibly damages the brand. It probably also annoys her that the lefties in question, aside from being infinitely more genuine than her, don't go along with the charade.

 

[TruXta]

My liberal comment was tongue in cheek!

Oh I know.

would you prefer I said "Oxbridge media clique" or something instead?

Objection noted and put into the minutes, comrade

Do I have to spell out to you why "gang-bang" is not an appropriate term? Clusterfuck, now there's a better word.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Oh I know.

Do I have to spell out to you why "gang-bang" is not an appropriate term? Clusterfuck, now there's a better word.

We're all getting accused of rampant sexism no matter how carefully we phrase things so, whilst you're totally right, it's a bit a moot point at this stage I reckon.

 

[TruXta]

I think what's pissing her off is that she's discovered that there's a slightly more radical left than hers already in existence, and she doesn't like it.

I think what she and so many others on the left don't like is the old-school focus on class and the attendant criticisms of identity politics. As soon as anyone goes "yes, LGBT rights are important, but...." then all hell breaks loose.

 

[weepiper]

We're all getting accused of rampant sexism no matter how carefully we phrase things so, whilst you're totally right, it's a bit a moot point at this stage I reckon.

I dunno Delroy, gang-bang in the usual British context has strong 'rape' overtones. I wouldn't use it.

 

[Blagsta]

Knowing your Manet from your Monet can mean the difference between an internship at the New Statesman and and internment at New Cross, if you know what I mean.

Song by Billy Idol innit

 

[TruXta]

We're all getting accused of rampant sexism no matter how carefully we phrase things so, whilst you're totally right, it's a bit a moot point at this stage I reckon.

Do it for me then.

 

[cesare]

I think what she and so many others on the left don't like is the old-school focus on class and the attendant criticisms of identity politics. As soon as anyone goes "yes, LGBT rights are important, but...." then all hell breaks loose.

Not a comfortable conversation to have for many.

 

[TruXta]

Not a comfortable conversation to have for many.

And I can understand why, but still.

 

[Delroy Booth]

I dunno Delroy, gang-bang in the usual British context has strong 'rape' overtones. I wouldn't use it.

Does it???

Ah shit now that's a bit different to what I intended.

I just meant it in a "cliquey" sense more than owt else.

 

[cesare]

I dunno Delroy, gang-bang in the usual British context has strong 'rape' overtones. I wouldn't use it.

Maybe the youngsters are co-opting it, like they did with gay.

 

[TruXta]

Does it???

Ah shit now that's a bit different to what I intended.

I just meant it in a "cliquey" sense more than owt else.

Are you UK or US? AFAIK US usage is both "rapey" and to do with gangs going out on a rampage.

 

[weepiper]

Does it???

Ah shit now that's a bit different to what I intended.

I just meant it in a "cliquey" sense more than owt else.

the first page of a google search for the word will show you what I mean.

 

[JimW]

the fisrt page of a google search for the word will show you what I mean.

But wait until you're at work to try that

 

[cesare]

And I can understand why, but still.

It'd be worth discussing if it was possible for main stream feminism (as opposed to "born women only" type feminism) to stop being branded as identity politics, for a start.

 

[Delroy Booth]

Maybe the youngsters are co-opting it, like they did with gay.

Fuck knows, but I give you my word I wouldn't have used it if I thought it had rapey overtones, I promise you that.

So yeah apologies for that, genuine error on my part

 

[articul8]

I think what's pissing her off is that she's discovered that there's a slightly more radical left than hers already in existence, and she doesn't like it.

She's a LD voting, UN air-strike cheering, Obama-orgasming liberal. Despite all the anarcho-feminist chatter

 

[DotCommunist]

post a drilldo pick to make up for it

 

[Fez909]

You just don't care about all those children in the Middle East killed by ceiling fans

It's actually the Far East where this is occurring.

 

[JimW]

It's actually the Far East where this is occurring.

They tell you that here too! (ETA, Well, not death but 'you'll catch your death') I was brought up to sleep with the windows open and my Chinese mates think I'm nuts.

 

[Random]

make it stop

I'm actually quite politically cheered up by this thread, especially in recent days. It shows that there's a fair few of us on here that can agree and talk usefully about a basic pro-working class politics, even if we do it as part of hating liberals and elitist lefties. It would be great if someone pulled the best bits into an article about lefty class privilege.

 

[butchersapron]

Not in red pepper though please.

 

[TruXta]

I'm actually quite politically cheered up by this thread, especially in recent days. It shows that there's a fair few of us on here that can agree and talk usefully about a basic pro-working class politics, even if we do it as part of hating liberals and elitist lefties. It would be great if someone pulled the best bits into an article about lefty class privilege.

If you've got a spare 10K we can take out a full page in the Graun.

 

[DaveCinzano]

If you've got a spare 10K we can take out a full page in the Graun.

Let's start a Kickstarter crowdfunding project!

 

[TruXta]

Let's start a Kickstarter crowdfunding project!

Actually not a bad idea.

 

[DotCommunist]

who wouldn't want to fund an article cunting off fabians in their own paper

 

[TruXta]

who wouldn't want to fund an article cunting off fabians in their own paper

I'm in for a tenner.

 

[JimW]

If you've got a spare 10K we can take out a full page in the Graun.

How much to just take out the Graun?

 

[Dan U]

how many pages does this thread to need a Part 2.

 

[TruXta]

How much to just take out the Graun?

You asking me? Let me get back to you on that one.

Oh, are we talking the building, the people, the organisation or all/a combo?