Thimble Queen
Called away to another place
Baby it's cold outside, basically?
A third of male university students say they would rape a woman if there no were no consequences
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Baby it's cold outside, basically?
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wobbly
that's one scenario of it, yeah.
nice guy, invites her in cause ti's cold outside, then gets her drunk so he can push further
That's rather the point.
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wobbly
ok, i'm studying attitudes of a different sort, either i design the study well enough so I get patterns that i can write about, or I don't. no pattern, no result, and not getting a pattern is a failure, i wouldn't get to say that not finding anything is also an interesting thing. all I can do at that point is look for other ways to find more information in the hope of finding patterns, or quit
and one day closer to REF assessment. that's Uk based, but most places will see similar, where they and their institute are given performance ratings.
So what is the empirical strategy?
ferrelhadley
There is no love between us anymore.
WEIRD study produces headline grabbing result shocker.
scifisam
deleted
If the woman were too drunk/unconscious to remember, and the man used a condom and no excessive force leaving marks, then she wouldn't know either. You could argue that that makes the rape less bad, in that she won't be traumatised by it, and that may have affected the results.
But it's also something that happens in the real world, women getting raped when too out of it to remember it. I mean, Ched Evans' victim didn't even know he'd raped her till DNA evidence showed it and then he admitted having sex with her and witnesses said they'd seen it - she only thought the other footballer had raped her, hence the DNA testing to begin with.
It's really not as bizarre a proposition as some are suggesting.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Ched Evans spent two and a half years in jail. That's a good counter-example, surely - even if she doesn't remember, there can still be consequences in the real world.
I think if you're really horrified by the study you're ascribing intent to these men, as in, yes I'd want to.
Whereas the rates of sexual assault are fairly high, so it might have been that 30% of men were actually honestly answering the question "can you envisage a situation where you might rape a women", and they were possibly answering honestly, given the general stats about rape.
Does that make sense?
As in, if 100 people were asked "would you ever hit a child (if you knew you would get away with it)", 30% might say yes, it's whether that means yes, I'd want to, or, yes I know I might.
Whereas the rates of sexual assault are fairly high, so it might have been that 30% of men were actually honestly answering the question "can you envisage a situation where you might rape a women", and they were possibly answering honestly, given the general stats about rape.
Does that make sense?
As in, if 100 people were asked "would you ever hit a child (if you knew you would get away with it)", 30% might say yes, it's whether that means yes, I'd want to, or, yes I know I might.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Hopefully that case will at least put the message across to a few knuckleheads that an unconscious or blind drunk woman is not fair game after all.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Strikes me that they're directing the men away from their real-life behaviour towards their fantasies by setting the questions in fantasy-land. So this study found that 30 per cent of the respondents would entertain rapey fantasies when prompted.
But I believe there are studies out there that have found that both men and women commonly entertain rapey fantasies. Is this showing any more than that?
Given that 2 women a week are killed by a current or former male partner, and every minute an incident of domestic violence is reported to the police, why is it so hard to believe that other offences against women are par for the course? In the real world, rape is not an exceptional crime carried out by a few disturbed individuals; it's a common, everyday occurrence. Unlike murder, robbing a bank and all the other hypothetical comparisons that have been made, most rapes are already carried out with total impunity.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Good point, maybe they should of asked the men how much of a boner do they seriously believe they could maintain in the presence of screams, shouts, tears, punches, clawings, pleadings and seriously-not-happy-face (or even just cold immobile terror).
To be honest, I think the real story here is that they quite simply didn't take the survey seriously....I don't believe for one minute that someone who is harbouring thoughts of raping people would admit as much. Most rape cases involving students aren't going to be planned or premeditated, it's a case of them getting drunk / high and making awful decisions when presented with a person in vulnerable situation.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Just Aaecdotal, but when I did jury service there were two trials ongoing the week I was there, both were rape cases (including the one I was on). From speaking to people who were there for the second week, the week before there had been 3 trials, all of them rape cases. Bearing in mind how many go unreported it is pretty depressing.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It makes sense. It's quite simple:
All data,even data from a study that ended up not proving the researcher's thesis (on the researcher's terms this is a "failed project), is "grist to the mill" of further study.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
With the added caveat, perhaps, that some parts of US academe appear to concentrate more on volume of publications, as opposed to the quality of the product.
kabbes
First intersubjective, then internalised
... I'm sure you'd like to add for the public record that at no time did any juror actually discuss any trial they had been a juror on with anybody that had not been a juror on the same trial.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Um, I hope you're not suggesting that if she doesn't struggle, it's not rape.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Read the paper, there's a good twat. They had no reason to not take the questions seriously. In fact, as course credits were involved as a "payment" for participation, the encouragement would have been the exact opposite of what you claim. The data was also assessed using variables to allow for participants not taking the survey seriously.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
"or even just cold immobile terror". What do you think?
Of course that doesn't mean that if she's passed-out drunk or drugged up then it's not rape either, I'm really just agreeing with lbj's point about the questions asked.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
Apologies. Red mist.
I don't run around insulting people, that's why I'm in with a better chance of a shag than you are. I'll most probably live longer.
Have you thought about buying some stress balls to help with your anger management issues?
If you need anything, I'll always be here to help. {{{ ViolentPanda }}}
scifisam
deleted
Not really. He was convicted because she suspected someone else had raped her (and her got off because they decided she wasn't drunk enough when the other footballer took her to bed). Otherwise she would never have known.
And that was part of the question, ISTM, in this study, because with no repercussions could certainly include the woman not remembering. Her remembering it would count as a repercussion for lots of men.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Because you're a coward.
A deluded coward.
More than likely, as I've less than a score left of my "three score and ten". Still, at least I can die knowing my life had value.
Tut tut, don't you think you're rather giving the game away with your fixation on my supposed "anger management issues"?
No you won't. As always, all you'll ever do or be good for is shit stirring.
I'm not. Like much else, its basic conclusions were anticipated by Plato. Ring of Gyges innit.
Do you honestly think that all erections are the same?! Based on accounts from both victims and perpetrators of rape (even if no one is calling it that, which is common), what you're describing can happen and so the rape stops. In other cases it makes no difference; the man ignores all signs of objection or resistance that may be present, or even seems oblivious to it. In others, he becomes sexually aroused by it. Power has been known to turn people on.
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camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I proposed the question, doubtless there are some men out there that would say that they'd be encouraged by the distress and rage. Not sure what it is you think I was saying to be fair.
Re your last point about power, I know it's a common conception that rape isn't about sex but is about power. I disagree, all sex is about power to some degree, no- in my opinion rape is about theft. Who doesn't like a bit of power-play washing round the bedroom, nuthin wrong with it.
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