A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Smokeandsteam]

The people who are not changing their mind are the older, more financially secure boomers:

Which Leave voters have turned against Brexit? | YouGov

Those who have changed their mind are notably younger than those who still think it was right to vote to leave the EU

yougov.co.uk

Again, you confuse two entirely separate things. Dissatisfaction of Leave voters with the abysmal Tory implementation of leave is not the same as a desire to rejoin the decomposing EU neoliberal project.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I have absolutely zero time for Mandleson et al but you can't know the bit in bold with any degree of certainty.

The only data I’ve seen shows plenty of voters angry with the Tories squandering the possibilities open up by Brexit. It does not show a popular hankering - outside planet remain - for rejoining the EU project

 

[gentlegreen]

The only data I’ve seen shows plenty of voters angry with the Tories squandering the possibilities open up by Brexit. It does not show a popular hankering - outside planet remain - for rejoining the EU project

What would those "possibilities" look like ?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

What would those "possibilities" look like ?

Return to prioritisation of a national economy driven by a national investment bank and an industrial strategy
Increased public ownership of utilities and key parts of the economy
Strengthened collective bargaining arrangements and an end to the use of free movement of labour to undercut wages.
Devolve power to local communities

 

[sleaterkinney]

Again, you confuse two entirely separate things. Dissatisfaction of Leave voters with the abysmal Tory implementation of leave is not the same as a desire to rejoin the decomposing EU neoliberal project.

They haven’t messed a good thing up, it’s the reality of brexit, there is no good or bad implementation, and it’s perfectly logical that (some) people regret their decision.

 

[A380]

What would those "possibilities" look like ?

All the rats you can eat.

 

[A380]

Return to prioritisation of a national economy driven by a national investment bank and an industrial strategy
Increased public ownership of utilities and key parts of the economy
Strengthened collective bargaining arrangements and an end to the use of free movement of labour to undercut wages.
Devolve power to local communities

All these things could be in place by Tuesday if only people would believe and stop being beastly about Brexit...

 

[Smokeandsteam]

They haven’t messed a good thing up, it’s the reality of brexit, there is no good or bad implementation, and it’s perfectly logical that (some) people regret their decision.

The first part of this is palpably ridiculous - to misquote Fredric Jameson “it seems like for some remainers it’s easier to imagine the end of the world rather than leaving the EU” - and doesn’t warrant a reply. The second half of is backed up by some evidence. However, the fact that this is the case does not mean those voters will be hankering for whatever alternative Mandelson, Gove, Lammy and their captain of industry chums can cobble together

 

[Smokeandsteam]

All these things could be in place by Tuesday if only people would believe and stop being beastly about Brexit...

Too dim to warrant reply.

 

[A380]

Too dim to warrant reply.

Too dim to use the indefinite article.

 

[sleaterkinney]

The first part of this is palpably ridiculous - to misquote Fredric Jameson “it seems like for some remainers it’s easier to imagine the end of the world rather than leaving the EU” - and doesn’t warrant a reply. The second half of is backed up by some evidence. However, the fact that this is the case does not mean those voters will be hankering for whatever alternative Mandelson, Gove, Lammy and their captain of industry chums can cobble together

Doesn’t warrant a reply?. What bs is this??. Imagining some Lexit nonsense that was never on the table?.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Revealing stuff on Planet Remain. sleaterkinney thinks the Tories have done a decent job but just been dealt the bad hand of having to deliver Brexit (which is literally impossible). Meanwhile A380 seems to think political change occurs through wiling things (or at least suggests 17 million people are as dim as he/she is).

Hopefully Mandelson, Gove and co will be less deluded than their supporters!

 

[sleaterkinney]

Revealing stuff on Planet Remain. sleaterkinney thinks the Tories have done a decent job but just been dealt the bad hand of having to deliver Brexit (which is literally impossible). Meanwhile A380 seems to think political change occurs through wiling things (or at least suggests 17 million people are as dim as he/she is).

Hopefully Mandelson, Gove and co will be less deluded than their supporters!

Putting words in my mouth now?.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

sleaterkinney From your own mouth ya bam..

They (the Tories) haven’t messed a good thing up, it’s the reality of brexit, there is no good or bad implementation, and it’s perfectly logical that (some) people regret their decision.

 

[A380]

Revealing stuff on Planet Remain. sleaterkinney thinks the Tories have done a decent job but just been dealt the bad hand of having to deliver Brexit (which is literally impossible). Meanwhile A380 seems to think political change occurs through wiling things (or at least suggests 17 million people are as dim as he/she is).

Hopefully Mandelson, Gove and co will be less deluded than their supporters!

3/10 you Lexit loon.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

3/10 you Lexit loon.

Have you got a single idea or coherent argument in your head. Or is it always like this?

 

[A380]

Have you got a single idea or coherent argument in your head. Or is it always like this?

Yes.

 

[sleaterkinney]

sleaterkinney From your own mouth ya bam..

Where did I say they had done a good job?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Where did I say they had done a good job?

I even did a bold for you…

 

[Yossarian]

At least everybody seems to be on the page now about Brexit having been handled abysmally, makes a change from a few years ago when people were posting tables of pork export statistics or whatever in posts that could have been mistaken for Conservative press releases.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

At least everybody seems to be on the page now about Brexit having been handled abysmally, makes a change from a few years ago when people were posting tables of pork export statistics or whatever in posts that could have been mistaken for Conservative press releases.

An odd post when sleaterkinney has just stated that the Tories haven’t handled it badly!

 

[Yossarian]

sleaterkinney, do you think the Tories have handled Brexit badly?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

sleaterkinney, do you think the Tories have handled Brexit badly?

He/she has already answered that…keep up

 

[sleaterkinney]

I even did a bold for you…

So to you, not messing something up is the same as doing a good job?. Explains a lot.

 

[sleaterkinney]

sleaterkinney, do you think the Tories have handled Brexit badly?

I think they have done what they said they were going to do and they have got the brexit they wanted. The reality of it was never going to match up with the fantasy they sold.

The second you get into handling it well territory you have to admit the fantasy was false - something Labour will have to do.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

So to you, not messing something up is the same as doing a good job?. Explains a lot.

Depends on the context and other contingencies for me.

 

[gosub]

All these things could be in place by Tuesday if only people would believe and stop being beastly about Brexit...

Has become apparent that we have a political class (what happened to elected representatives) that are more interested in looking after what bathwater they can. Somewhere, a way back, are both a discarded bath and a baby

 

[teqniq]

The only data I’ve seen shows plenty of voters angry with the Tories squandering the possibilities open up by Brexit. It does not show a popular hankering - outside planet remain - for rejoining the EU project

Can i have a link to this data you've seen please?

 

[two sheds]

If it's mainly the older, richer voters who are still enamoured of brexit surely they're going to vote tory regardless.

 

[Yossarian]

I think they have done what they said they were going to do and they have got the brexit they wanted. The reality of it was never going to match up with the fantasy they sold.

The second you get into handling it well territory you have to admit the fantasy was false - something Labour will have to do.

Yep, "This shit was never going to work" is probably a more realistic outlook than "This shit could be made to work if Keir Starmer had a chance to tinker with it."