A thank you to Brexiteers.

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The only oranges the British are going to be selling overseas are Terry's chocolate ones.

Far more yummy than the squidgy muck the Spanish try to palm off on us.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

India is a massive buyer of scotch. It’s what people want as a sort of prestige gift.
And they’re being badgered by the UK Gov to drop their tariffs , as part of the trade deal.

Imported booze has a massive tariff on it in India, so much so that BA won’t serve champagne on the ground in first and business class when departing India.

 

[bimble]

Imported booze has a massive tariff on it in India, so much so that BA won’t serve champagne on the ground in first and business class when departing India.

Yep. 150% on scotch apparently .

UK seeks duty cut on Scotch whisky

The move would widely open up Britain’s third-largest exports market for scotch whisky by volume after France and the US.

www.livemint.com

 

[muscovyduck]

if it's really so hard to import stuff since January then people are probably buying more UK whisky which would balance it out a bit.

 

[brogdale]

The tin foil army will have moved by then of course to the latest ‘shock revelation’ about the impending Armageddon as a result of Brexit (neatly ignoring the actual meltdown currently taking hold across the world economy). Fortunately we’ll be here to remind them of their latest folly...

Casting those who interpret the FDA UK-EU Jan trade data differently to yourself as a "tin foil army" doesn't sound like its coming from a secure position, tbh.

 

[Spymaster]

India is a massive buyer of scotch. It’s what people want as a sort of prestige gift.
And they’re being badgered by the UK Gov to drop their tariffs , as part of the trade deal.

When you say "badgered" ...?

Dropping tariffs is what trade deals are about.

 

[Doppelgänger]

tbh it doesn't matter if all that whisky which might have been expected to go to the EU was poured into loch ness, there still wouldn't be a decline of 63% in the volume consumed or the value sold.

The EU is the biggest single export market for Scotch, at least in 2019...

Not 63%, but almost one third. That is sizeable.

Scotch Whisky Export figures 2019

Find out how much Scotch Whisky exports were worth last year, and how many bottles of Scotch Whisky were shipped in 2019.

www.scotch-whisky.org.uk

 

[Yossarian]

Fucking hell. A whole bunch of urbs acting as apologists for the tory government.

Well, yeah - now that Brexit has happened and is the status quo, the Guardians of Brexit can probably stand down and criticise government policies without the fear of being labeled a closet Remoaner. Pointing out ways in which this doesn't seem to be going very well shouldn't really be a Leave/Remain issue at all.

 

[kebabking]

Far more yummy than the squidgy muck the Spanish try to palm off on us.

You Sir, are dead to me....

 

[Pickman's model]

Imported booze has a massive tariff on it in India, so much so that BA won’t serve champagne on the ground in first and business class when departing India.

Bastards

 

[Pickman's model]

Well, yeah - now that Brexit has happened and is the status quo, the Guardians of Brexit can probably stand down and criticise government policies without the fear of being labeled a closet Remoaner. Pointing out ways in which this doesn't seem to be going very well shouldn't really be a Leave/Remain issue at all.

Brexit will never have happened, it's going to be ongoing for years

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Casting those who interpret the FDA UK-EU Jan trade data differently to yourself as a "tin foil army" doesn't sound like its coming from a secure position, tbh.

Timely that you reference a secure position, because that’s the debate we need to be having.

Sensible remain long departed the scene, either for tactical reasons or simply because it recognised that the debate was over or even because a conclusion was reached by some that maybe they were on the wrong side.

All that’s left is the militant wing. Increasingly desperate, shrill, prone to conspiracy and seizing on scraps of ‘evidence’ to prove as someone said a few pages ago ‘that something has happened’.

Devoid of any narrative to explain what’s happened, what’s happening and what should happen. Remain is in crisis. Obsessive focus on a trade body’s report frozen in isolation for one month to prove that exports have collapsed during a worldwide pandemic.

Nothing to say on the melting EU economy, the vaccine programme exploding the inherent contradiction of its addiction to the free market or the unfolding crisis of political legitimacy across the EU. Not even a scrap of any idea of how we would rejoin and under what conditions. A collapse into a feeling, a long nostalgia for an imagined past.

Leaving aside one month of trading figures - contingent on loads of factors and anyway indicating recovery within the month - can anyone point to one recent strategic, well argued, properly researched and proportionate argument advanced by Remain written in the last 12 months??

 

[Maggot]

Leaving aside one month of trading figures - contingent on loads of factors and anyway indicating recovery within the month - can anyone point to one recent strategic, well argued, properly researched and proportionate argument advanced by Remain written in the last 12 months??

It's not just cost/benefit. It's losing the freedom to live and work in 27 other countries. It's jobs. It's breaking the Good Friday Agreement. It's Erasmus. It's staff shortages in the NHS.

 

[bimble]

That’s just bizarre to me, ‘sensible remain long departed the scene’ means anyone saying there are difficulties as a result of the brexit must be an extremist of some sort? Very odd.
Whats ‘the scene’ anyway, any conversation about the brexit?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

That’s just bizarre to me, ‘sensible remain long departed the scene’ means anyone saying there are difficulties as a result of the brexit must be an extremist of some sort?

It’s also a fact.

And not an ‘extremist’ but someone politically unmoored

 

[Spymaster]

Obsessive focus on a trade body’s report frozen in isolation for one month to prove that exports have collapsed during a worldwide pandemic.

75% though!!!

 

[bimble]

It’s also a fact.

And not an ‘extremist’ but someone politically unmoored

Ok then.

 

[Maggot]

Sensible remain long departed the scene, either for tactical reasons or simply because it recognised that the debate was over or even because a conclusion was reached by some that maybe they were on the wrong side.

Sensible remain departed because arguing with you lot is a waste of time and energy.

 

[Maggot]

22,000 NHS staff from the EU left since the Referendum. Most of those vacancies weren't filled. I wonder how many Covid deaths that caused?

More than 22,000 EU nationals have left NHS since Brexit referendum, figures show

Liberal Democrats warn that replacements will be deterred by new visa and health surcharge fees after UK leaves the EU

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Pickman's model]

22,000 NHS staff from the EU left since the Referendum. Most of those vacancies weren't filled. I wonder how many Covid deaths that caused?

More than 22,000 EU nationals have left NHS since Brexit referendum, figures show

Liberal Democrats warn that replacements will be deterred by new visa and health surcharge fees after UK leaves the EU

www.independent.co.uk

Johnson and his cabal have the blood of tens of thousands on their hands

 

[gosub]

What majority are you talking about here?

The 17-odd million who voted for Brexit five years ago with no definition whatever as to what that Brexit might entail, in fact with strong words from the pro-brexit campaigners that exactly this kind of thing would not happen?

Or is it perhaps the 12-odd million who voted tory in the last election? They can be said to be more capable of knowing what they were voting for, but 12-odd million out of about 52 million adults is not in any sense a majority, either of the absolute numbers of people or even just from those who voted.

might as well abandon democracy all together then, its what the Remainers want. Am I getting the hang of how political discorse works now?

 

[Maggot]

Leaving aside one month of trading figures - contingent on loads of factors and anyway indicating recovery within the month - can anyone point to one recent strategic, well argued, properly researched and proportionate argument advanced by Remain written in the last 12 months??

None of our new trade deals are better than the ones we had with the EU. They are either worse of the same.

 

[andysays]

That’s just bizarre to me, ‘sensible remain long departed the scene’ means anyone saying there are difficulties as a result of the brexit must be an extremist of some sort? Very odd.
Whats ‘the scene’ anyway, any conversation about the brexit?

I think some (though not all) of those saying there are difficulties as a result of Brexit are attempting to argue that Brexit shouldn't have happened, and that those who voted for it are personally to blame for everything that has happened since that vote. You don't need to look very far back in this thread to find examples of that.

I voted Leave, and that doesn't prevent me from recognising that there are and will continue to be problems resulting from the implementation of Brexit, which isn't the same as saying let's call the whole thing off.

Anyone still arguing or attempting to argue a Remain case at this point is just making themselves look ridiculous, not that I expect my saying so will stop them...

 

[brogdale]

Timely that you reference a secure position, because that’s the debate we need to be having.

Sensible remain long departed the scene, either for tactical reasons or simply because it recognised that the debate was over or even because a conclusion was reached by some that maybe they were on the wrong side.

All that’s left is the militant wing. Increasingly desperate, shrill, prone to conspiracy and seizing on scraps of ‘evidence’ to prove as someone said a few pages ago ‘that something has happened’.

Devoid of any narrative to explain what’s happened, what’s happening and what should happen. Remain is in crisis. Obsessive focus on a trade body’s report frozen in isolation for one month to prove that exports have collapsed during a worldwide pandemic.

Nothing to say on the melting EU economy, the vaccine programme exploding the inherent contradiction of its addiction to the free market or the unfolding crisis of political legitimacy across the EU. Not even a scrap of any idea of how we would rejoin and under what conditions. A collapse into a feeling, a long nostalgia for an imagined past.

Leaving aside one month of trading figures - contingent on loads of factors and anyway indicating recovery within the month - can anyone point to one recent strategic, well argued, properly researched and proportionate argument advanced by Remain written in the last 12 months??

Maybe my conspiraloon antenna are letting me down, but I can't really say that I've noticed remain-type folk in here resorting to conspiracy theory. That's why I was surprised to see you casting them as TFH.

It seems to me that anyone persuaded by either side of the Brexit debate will tend to be prone to confirmation bias to some degree. Yeah, one month's data is obviously of limited value, but the objective fact that the FDF Jan YoY numbers are markedly worse than their comparable 2020 Q3 data is worthy of consideration.

From my perspective, the 'remainer' contention that they illustrate the sectoral harm caused by leaving the single market looks every bit as valid as 'leaver' faith that the numbers are a mere blip caused by other exogenous factors.

As to your last question:

can anyone point to one recent strategic, well argued, properly researched and proportionate argument advanced by Remain written in the last 12 months??

I suppose it could be turned around and equally posed to those that support the UK's exit from the supra-state.? The problem I have here is that any vision or strategy of what a post-EU UK looks like appears indistinguishable from the present Government's vision.

 

[Supine]

So people who voted remain can't offer any opinion on how things have turned out? Yay for urban democracy.

 

[brogdale]

So people who voted remain can't offer any opinion on how things have turned out? Yay for urban democracy.

I'm not seeing that on here, either tbh.

 

[Pickman's model]

So people who voted remain can't offer any opinion on how things have turned out? Yay for urban democracy.

This isn't a democracy

As I thought you might have noticed in the last 17 years

 

[Smokeandsteam]

So people who voted remain can't offer any opinion on how things have turned out? Yay for urban democracy.

The opposite. I’ve already asked for someone to post up well written and argued remainer perspectives written since March 2020.

 

[Supine]

The opposite. I’ve already asked for someone to post up well written and argued remainer perspectives written since March 2020.

You did tbf. But I'm not sure what you're expecting anyone to write. Us remainers lost and we need to deal with it, so I don't see what kind of remainer argument would be worth positioning anymore.

What we can do is point out problems as they occur due to the nature of the Brexit that has occurred. That doesn't warrant a load of leavers telling us to get over it and that we look ridiculous. Our opinions are valid.

 

[muscovyduck]

Haven't people who voted remain been posting on this thread? I was one of them