And Australia, luckily it all turned out well in those Countries.......apart for those people who already lived there. No story is as simple as it seems.
Many Irish people ended up in Australia not by choice but because they were sent there..
And Australia, luckily it all turned out well in those Countries.......apart for those people who already lived there. No story is as simple as it seems.
As The39thStep said how far (back) are you taking this logic? Did all those that voted Labour in 2005 endorse the Iraq war? All three major UK parties stood on a policy of austerity in 2010 and 2015, so did a majority of the UK electorate ensure the austerity agenda was realised? People vote for parties for all kinds of reasons. Moreover, making voting a (the key) political action ignores all the real politics that is involved in people's day to day lives.It was and that's certainly what post-polling found.
But it's also true that voting Tory ensured that the party's wider agenda was realised.
no one is in full control of their lives at other times either.
oh we have no idea of how fucked things may getProbably true. But at least we had an idea of how fucked things might get.
oh we have no idea of how fucked things may get
That still gives 1/4 of the Leave vote which didn't contribute to the Tory victory (and an unknown % of the Remain vote which did).
Many Irish people ended up in Australia not by choice but because they were sent there..
I totally agree. Many Scots-Irish, English and other nationalities too.
However, once there (in conjunction with the other non-native peoples) they would have been as culpable for the appalling treatment of aboriginal peoples as any other nationality.
This is way off topic though, and the point I was attempting was to say that no nation can have a totally clear conscience for some events during that period of history.
Now there are no limitsYes....whereas before we had some idea.
Many Irish people ended up in Australia not by choice but because they were sent there..
Highland clearances started long before the famine, round 1750Potato Famine and highland clearances was same time as the Aussie gold rush
Highland clearances started long before the famine, round 1750
But according to wikipedia didn't stop til 10years after the Aussie gold rush.....Canada is where a lot of them ended up before thenHighland clearances started long before the famine, round 1750
Never heard of that beforeThe Irish Famine of 1740–1741 (Irish: Bliain an Áir, meaning the Year of Slaughter) in the Kingdom of Ireland, is estimated to have killed between 13% and 20% of the 1740 population of 2.4 million people, which was a proportionately greater loss than during the Great Famine 100 years later.
Yes, a great Scottish presence in canadaBut according to wikipedia didn't stop til 10years after the Aussie gold rush.....Canada is where a lot of them ended up before then
Yes, a great Scottish presence in canada
Never heard of that before
I don't think I mentioned not talking about it. I was talking about all the whining, and more specifically, people blaming leave voters for every fuck-up the government has ever made.The end of the transition period itself only happened a few months ago and already the UK is trying to rewrite what it signed up to, and the effects are still happening. Of course it should be talked about.
When I mentioned the 74% of Leave voters that went on to vote Tory in December 2019 in reply to TopCat earlier to day, I didn't actually speculate about their motivation, endorsement of policy or any reasons for their decision, merely that they had. In doing so, either wittingly or unwittingly, their collective choice did ensure that the Tories are in a position to effect their manifesto commitments.As The39thStep said how far (back) are you taking this logic? Did all those that voted Labour in 2005 endorse the Iraq war? All three major UK parties stood on a policy of austerity in 2010 and 2015, so did a majority of the UK electorate ensure the austerity agenda was realised? People vote for parties for all kinds of reasons. Moreover, making voting a (the key) political action ignores all the real politics that is involved in people's day to day lives.
So in your view in 2010 an absolute majority of the electorate made the collective choice (and 49.9% in 2015) for the implementation of austerity? Or in 1997 Labour voters must have been ensuring the wider agenda of the Blair government was realised.When I mentioned the 74% of Leave voters that went on to vote Tory in December 2019 in reply to TopCat earlier to day, I didn't actually speculate about their motivation, endorsement of policy or any reasons for their decision, merely that they had. In doing so, either wittingly or unwittingly, their collective choice did ensure that the Tories are in a position to effect their manifesto commitments.
Kind of what happens when you vote for parties that secure a majority?So in your view in 2010 an absolute majority of the electorate made the collective choice (and 49.9% in 2015) for the implementation of austerity? Or in 1997 Labour voters must have been ensuring the wider agenda of the Blair government was realised.
Not in my view. For me voting (in a local/general election) is an almost apolitical act. The collective responsibility lies with the council/government and (to a lesser extent) the party members. Doing otherwise minimises the alignment of the political interests (rather than the views) of the working classKind of what happens when you vote for parties that secure a majority?
Kind of what happens when you vote for parties that secure a majority?
I think the drift of some of the discussion in here today is very much that 2019 represented an example of where many folk were voting for a party, for one key reason.But we don't.
Yeah there are bunch of interested parties, and a bunch of fanbois for whom political parties are their Premiership football club type thing. But people, I think, don't vote for parties they vote against them.
I'll be honest squirrel...(I've had a few beers, so maybe that's it?)...but I really don't get what you're getting at there!Not in my view. For me voting (in a local/general election) is an almost apolitical act. The collective responsibility lies with the council/government and (to a lesser extent) the party members. Doing otherwise minimises the alignment of the political interests (rather than the views) of the working class
I think the drift of some of the discussion in here today is very much that 2019 represented an example of where many folk were voting for a party, for one key reason.
That seems a little over-worked to me. I suspect many of the 74% Leave voters who voted Tory in 2019 to 'Get Brexit Done' did so for just that.'Get Brexit done!' wasn't an endorsement of the absolute dogs dinner the Tories had made of it, it was a non endorsement of the counter idea : what this really needs now is another referendum'