9/11 military tapes released - Pentagon lied to the 9/11 commission

[squeegee]

Make an intelligent point or shut the fuck up please.

I've no idea what the Simpsons has to do with your unpleasant lie that "every word I write is filled with deceitfulness."

The Simpsons is in reference to the point that if I point out something that seems to be wrong on here I'm accused of being some smart-arse who thinks he's superior to the others here. In the Simpsons the police officer continually berates his sidekick for using three syllable words. "College Boy" is the remark used.

And you ask me to withdraw remarks and you continue to abuse and insult me with personal attacks. And then deny that you do. That's deceitfulness.

 

[squeegee]

Officer Wiggum: Aim for the big hose coming out of its face.
Lou: You mean the trunk?
Wiggum: Easy there, college boy.

 

[editor]

The Simpsons is in reference to the point that if I point out something that seems to be wrong on here I'm accused of being some smart-arse who thinks he's superior to the others here.

You made that claim, so I've no idea why you're now trying to deny it.

This modern-style fools alot of people. Obvious from the incredulity to my suggestions.

 

[editor]

Can you prove it's a lie?

I can certainly point you in the direction of the FAQ about personal attacks on mods.

You see, I rather object to people like you claiming that "every word I write is filled with deceitfulness."

That's rather overstepping the mark in my book. And you know what? I don't have to put up with it.

 

[Dandred]

Respect my..........

 

[editor]

I don't watch the show so I've no idea what that's supposed to mean, but could you remove the reference to JC2 from your user tag, please?

Thanks.

 

[squeegee]

I can certainly point you in the direction of the FAQ about personal attacks on mods.

You see, I rather object to people like you claiming that "every word I write is filled with deceitfulness."

That's rather overstepping the mark in my book. And you know what? I don't have to put up with it.

Grabbing your ball again are you? Tell me how that's fair? You can go on about your FAQs. How come you don't abide by them then? You've posted enough insults directed at me. You choose when to take things literally and when to understand context. You twist and turn like a twisty turny thing. That's decitful. Now not every word you write is deceitful. That's a figure of speech and I'll happily withdraw that if it offends your arbitrary literal sensibilities. But your posts are often deceitful. And the evidence is there for all to see. And they don't have to look very far. Just this thread. And once again you have ignored all my other points. And now you're threatening to ban me. Or did I read that wrong?

So you act like this is a fair debate. But its not. It's stacked like a UN Security council meeting. But that suits you does it?

Or are you just not clever enough to debate serious issues fair and square? Or maybe just not honest enough. Cos in a fair debate, with no personal insults and no slander, dealing with just the points, it would be a different story.

But you know that don't you?

Anyway, I'm off to take my mum out for a meal to celebrate her 75th birthday. So I won't be answering anymore posts tonight.

You do what you need to.

 

[editor]

Grabbing your ball again are you? Tell me how that's fair? You can go on about your FAQs. How come you don't abide by them then? You've posted enough insults directed at me. Y

I may have engaged in robust debate with you and exchanged insults, but I've never stooped so low as to claim that every single word you've ever posted here was "filled with deceitfulness."

You were way out of order of with that comment, no matter how many times you try and insult my intelligence by trying to backtrack your way out of it.

Now *that's* deceit.

 

[detective-boy]

I went looking - looking real hard - for a detailed structural engineer's analysis of the wtc collapse and couldn't find one that didn't support the 'official' story. If there's one out there, I'd love to read it.

Don't waste your time. The conspiraloons love to hint at / make oblique reference to / suggest you go and read all these alleged reports which support their argument ... but they don't exist.

If they did, do you not think they would be linking to them / cut & pasting from them and generally shouting them from the roof tops from the start?

Rule 1: You make the claim, you show me the evidence you base it on. Don't expect me to waste my time looking for it.

 

[detective-boy]

You can go on about your FAQs. How come you don't abide by them then?

Al Murray has the answer!

 

[WouldBe]

But it does smack of deceitfulness when you avoid answering questions

Care to answer my question then as to how conspiraloons harp on about the rubble being hastilly removed and shipped to China to prevent it being tested yet also post up 'evidence' that the rubble was tested?

Either the CIA bod is lying or the conspiraloons are.

Which is it?

 

[editor]

But it does smack of deceitfulness when you avoid answering questions

Quite priceless that one.

The absolute hallmark of conspiraloony here has been the amazing capacity of some posters to never answer relevant, on topic questions, no matter how many times they are politely asked to do so.

But when it comes to deceitfulness, I'd definitely include someone who sneakily tried to get away with two logs ins here in that category.

What do you think?

 

[fela fan]

I see you've also managed to completely avoid the topic here too, preferring to deliver a loon-stirring "we will overcome" speech rather than addressing the supposed 'points' about the 'impossibility' of making mobile calls from planes.

Pah, you're a funny boy editor. As if this thread was about how possible it is to make mobile phone calls, something you've discussed for years now. Hey man, just take a look at the thread's title.

The pentagon lied to the commission.

They always lie.

They were behind the attacks in some shape or form. Get used to it, it's all gonna come out some day...

 

[fela fan]

Ah. I see you're trying to be clever. At the point where fela drifted in to add his usual vague nonsense, we were discussing whether mobiles would work on planes or not. I believe the last 12 posts or so had been on that topic, hence my comment.

I now see others called you for your slipperiness. And look at your eel-like behaviour here!!! The last 12 posts or so make the topic, not the thread title. Wow, since when was that?!

Are you changing the way we do topics on your site?!

 

[fela fan]

Read his post. Any questions that are not accepting of the media's and governments stories are rubbished here in the same way they are in right-wing circles and I have experience of both and it feels exactly the same.

I would be more inclined to believe that you, Editor, are simply looking for hard proof if you occasionally showed some magnanimity in agreeing with the very real concerns expressed, when good points are raised. But you never do. You just use high court language (names, evidence, hard facts blah blah). This is not a court of law it's a bulletin board...for discussion.

It's not just Muslims who think the government are lying murderers. I don't believe a thing they say. Do you? I'm suspicious of what went on at 911, 7/7 and 3/11 as well as all these arrests and shootings. I have my theories and, guess what, it doesn't make me mad.

You are not the Grand Inquisitor or the font of all knowledge. And your technique (evidence evidence evidence) is terribly flawed when you accept the words written in newspapers and what the security services decide to tell you. That's evidence according to you? Ha!

According to you and the right-wing papers (like the Guardian, who today had a nasty pro-Israel article written by their favourite Yankee fascist Lionel Shriver - the Telegraph and Mail being basically fascist papers) this makes me a conspiraloon. Cos I question and believe that a small group of businessmen are provoking war to make money and to control a society of people who are beginning to wake up and realise their power and unity.

The stifling of debate is the language of the apologist. You might not be aware that's what you're doing....but that's what you're doing and it mirrors what goes on in the mainstream. You only have to say conspiracy and the whole argument is thrown out. How convenient for the murderers and wramongers and fascists of all descriptions.

You allow these murdering cunts to get away with it cos you're more concerned with "proving" people's sanity is under question. I agree with you that there should be as much hard fact as possible. But we have to keep asking questions and try to allay our suspicions.

And you NEVER win debates on these subjects. You just attack the individual. Who needs names and threads. It's common knowledge to anyone who has ever tried to have an honest discussion of the war on terror here.

If you were at least honest enough to admit what YOUR suspicions are. But you're more concerned in using vitriolic language to stifle the very real concerns that we are appeasing brutal tyrants trying to lock down a whole planet. You're more concerned with trying to slander posters by accusing them of being insane because you know you can't deal with the points they make. That makes you seem dishonest in the extreme.

This post is less space than a photo, but a thousand times better, and i have no problems quoting the whole lot of it so that i can congratulate the poster.

Fucking spot on mate. And i tell you what, i really get the impression you've described just about the whole of the british media, never mind urban.

Self-censorship in the likes of the US and UK is often at alarmingly high levels, and in no small part due to the bullying by those whose position in life gives them more power.

But far less ability to reason.

 

[fela fan]

Ah, so we're all stupid people being fooled, but clever ol' you can see 'the truth', yes?

Many people can indeed see the truth editor. You're just jealous that's all.

Never mind, maybe when you get a bit older you'll too get to discover it all.

 

[RaverDrew]

This post is less space than a photo, but a thousand times better, and i have no problems quoting the whole lot of it so that i can congratulate the poster.

Fucking spot on mate. And i tell you what, i really get the impression you've described just about the whole of the british media, never mind urban.

Self-censorship in the likes of the US and UK is often at alarmingly high levels, and in no small part due to the bullying by those whose position in life gives them more power.

But far less ability to reason.

Agreed, and I think it is one of the main reasons why people seem more apathetic to resistence and activism, which I always believed were the core values of this site especially.

 

[fela fan]

... which I always believed were the core values of this site especially.

They were mate. But there seems an alarming amount of posters who are here these days to effectively give us the state's angle on things.

If we want that shit, surely we can pick up any of the mainstream media, their official mouth organ...

 

[squeegee]

I may have engaged in robust debate with you and exchanged insults, but I've never stooped so low as to claim that every single word you've ever posted here was "filled with deceitfulness."

You were way out of order of with that comment, no matter how many times you try and insult my intelligence by trying to backtrack your way out of it.

Now *that's* deceit.

No Editor, you engaged in deeply insulting and offensive language, you've called my sanity into question countless times, which is about as low as anyone can go in the insult stakes and now you try to fob it off with a "robust debate" tag. Now that's dishonest.

If your posts were actual conversation to people in the street you'd be considered a foul abusive person. But in your little cubby hole you can get away with it. Cos when someone pulls you up on it you grab the emergency button and start quoting the FAQs and the fact it's your website so you can do what you want. So you pretend like this is a fair debate, then as soon as you start to get shown up you start your threats. That's dishonest.

You have not once tried to show any compromise with me in any debate we've had. You revel in the bitter exchanges. And like Marco Materazzi the Italian World Cup defender, you goad people into reacting, then pretend you had nothing to do with it. That's dishonest.

Well guess what, Zidane retaliated and got sent off for breaking FIFA's FAQs. But guess what? Most people would say that he was right to do what he did, rules or no rules. But in the end they both got fined, according to the rules.

So if you're gonna quote FAQs to me, how about you lay off the insulting language yourself. Calling my sanity into question is an unacceptable insult that deeply offends me. Will YOU apologise?

Like hell you will, and I don't expect it.

All I expect is that I can visit this Bulletin Board and have intelligent discussion about the events in the world, specifically to do with the political situation, 911 etc. and also my other pet project, the science/spirituality debate. I'll occasionally post about trivial subjects too, but that's what I want to discuss here.

The reason is that there are some extremely intelligent people on here and when there's not too much abuse it can be fun and informative. I don't mind robust debate. I love it. But not when the person dishing it out can't take it. And you dish it out loads, but you can't take it.

But if you continue to insult me then I am totally within my rights to defend myself. And to deny me that right is also dishonest in the extreme.

Whatever ideal you think you're defending by being such a cunt to anyone who disagrees with you, it's not worth it. The end does not justify the means. Too many people get hurt in the process.

So how about we turn this discussion into a civilised debate. I'm always ready for that.

How about you?

 

[RaverDrew]

 

[editor]

Many people can indeed see the truth editor. You're just jealous that's all.

Never mind, maybe when you get a bit older you'll too get to discover it all.

The day I become 'jealous' of a patronising, clueless airhead like you is the day I give up breathing.

 

[kyser_soze]

Yeah, but Squegee, answer WouldBes questions about the forensic analysis that prooves there were expolosives, as mentioned by your uber-source, Mr ex-CIA man!

We're waiting, and more to the point I'm really waiting - as I said, I'm not unwilling to believe that the elements in the USG knew about it/LIHOP/whatever...I've just never seen convincing, direct link evidence to the same, and since we're talking about unmasking the biggest lie EVER I rather think it's a responsibility to get all the ducks in a row, rather than just prattle out 'Well they're the government so they must have done it' platitudes.

 

[editor]

Agreed, and I think it is one of the main reasons why people seem more apathetic to resistence and activism, which I always believed were the core values of this site especially.

Wow. A 'censored' icon...

Seeing as you're shoving your oar in, perhaps you might tell me when and where you've been 'censored'?

Specifically, could you list what important posts of yours have been altered, removed or edited in any way please?

The irony is that those whining the most about 'censorship' are often the ones with fucking huge post counts who have been at liberty to endlessly post up wild, evidence free claims ad infinitum while feeling the posting rules don't apply to them.

We have a policy here about conspiracy threads that endlessly repeat themselves that offer nothing new: they get binned, just like kitten threads.

Yet, we keep getting the same handful of posters shoving up the same wild, evidence-free claims, invariably sourced from the same laughably dodgy sites and it's gone beyond a joke.

As several rational posters will tell you, attempting to debate the issue is a waste of time because the conspiracy fans either refuse to back up their sources and answer direct questions, or they endlessly shift the argument around. Or they post up links to sites offering a full suite of barking 'alternative' theories on just about everything, including UFOs.

And that's why several posters like me have simply had enough of seeing the same fact-untroubled, attention seeking bollocks being posted up again and again and again.

These boards aren't here as a nice high profile platform for obsessed (guffaw) 'truthseekers' to abuse with their wild yarns, but even so, posters have been given every opportunity to state their case - in endless detail - for an eternity.

And now it's become boring. Very boring.

Censored, my fucking arse.

 

[editor]

We're waiting, and more to the point I'm really waiting - as I said, I'm not unwilling to believe that the elements in the USG knew about it/LIHOP/whatever...I've just never seen convincing, direct link evidence to the same, and since we're talking about unmasking the biggest lie EVER I rather think it's a responsibility to get all the ducks in a row, rather than just prattle out 'Well they're the government so they must have done it' platitudes.

Couldn't agree more.

It's not impossible that some elements of the USG might have possibly been involved in some capacity, but only a fucking idiot (see: fela fan above) would go around declaring to know "the truth" when there isn't a scrap of credibly sourced evidence to back up such assertions.

I've been asking for credible, compelling evidence for nearly five years now, and I'll I get is the same links to the same dodgy sites authored by the same agenda-driven, unqualified, book flogging charlatans.

 

[Crispy]

Yep. Squeegee, you might be a complete loonspud, or you might be the living incarnation of Bernstein and Woodward compbined. However, it doesn't matter much because the genuine loonspuds have turned (and continue to turn) the debate into a slanging match where angry sensible people scream for evidence as the loonspud wriggles around like a soapy eel.

So, unfortunately, those sorts of arguments are dealt with harshly here. If this was the first thread on the topic, it would probably be much more civil, but it's been 5 years since 9/11 and that time has been full of the same old arguments over and over and over. The ed's tired of it and I don't blame him. Hence the very short fuse on the topic. Nowt you can do about it - others have made the same arguments before and they have either shut up or fucked off.

It's only the internet
It's only one tiny corner of the internet.
It's only one subject in one tiny corner of the internet.

 

[squeegee]

Yep. Squeegee, you might be a complete loonspud, or you might be the living incarnation of Bernstein and Woodward compbined. However, it doesn't matter much because the genuine loonspuds have turned (and continue to turn) the debate into a slanging match where angry sensible people scream for evidence as the loonspud wriggles around like a soapy eel.

So, unfortunately, those sorts of arguments are dealt with harshly here. If this was the first thread on the topic, it would probably be much more civil, but it's been 5 years since 9/11 and that time has been full of the same old arguments over and over and over. The ed's tired of it and I don't blame him. Hence the very short fuse on the topic. Nowt you can do about it - others have made the same arguments before and they have either shut up or fucked off.

It's only the internet
It's only one tiny corner of the internet.
It's only one subject in one tiny corner of the internet.

Agreed. But it's important that when sound points are made - and proof here is irrelevant - that lead to a reasonable suspicion, then that should be accepted. Operation Northwoods is a US government document. the fact that shooting down a passenger plane to instigate a war with Cuba was even considered is resonable cause for suspicion that a modern government could do the same.

But I am in agreement that you cannot use proof from websites like Alex Jones's. If the proof were really there it would be in the news before it got onto this website. But even websites like Alex Jones and the like are necessary because reasonable debate is censored on mainstream media.

Did I accuse you, editor, of censoring me? You haven't but you make veiled threats that you might ban me because I have uttered an insulting remark, and I maintain I am reacting to provocation. I really try not to, but you really do go for it on the insult level.

There's much I disagree with on the conspiracy front, and I agree that cirular arguments on these subjects are a waste of time.

But each thread on the conspiracy comes from new evidence and yet that is treated the same way.

If the tone were one of reconciliation rather than condemnation and conflict then we could arrive at some truth given the wide variety of knowledge and opinionon these boards.

At least there is some debate on this here which makes it infinitely preferable to posting on a mainstream news site where the debate still centres around the fact that it is Muslims who feel disgruntled when it's over half the nation.

Evidence, yes. But also reasonable suspicion and intelligent questioning, and there's enough of it here that you continually stifle.

I know you have your problem posters, but if you treat me as such then you are mistaken.

I just believe that as small a corner of the web as this is, there's enough specific knwoledge here to actually do something positive with it, rather than pretending that we're all just posting for a laugh.

There's enough knowledge here that soon the plot will unravel. Things have been kept quiet by governments since forever, but this one's so big, and so many people are suspicious, that stuff will come out.

And it would be something if the straw that broke the camel's back came from this bulletin board.

Yeah, I'm a dreamer....

 

[editor]

Operation Northwoods is a US government document. the fact that shooting down a passenger plane to instigate a war with Cuba was even considered is resonable cause for suspicion that a modern government could do the same.

Oh, for fuck's sake. Not this again.

Search: "northwoods" Results: fucking loads

What's the point of bringing up this near half-century old non-event again?

Did I accuse you, editor, of censoring me?

<bashes head against wall>

Did I name you? No. I was responding to Raver Drew's post, but if you care to acquaint yourself with the search function, you'll see that quite a few conspiracy 'fans' are keen to squeal 'censorship' here while they're busily notching up five figure post counts.

There's enough knowledge here that soon the plot will unravel.

Ah, so you're mind's made up that there was a plot then, even if you have no proof to support it?

At least you're finally admitting it.

 

[RaverDrew]

Seeing as you're shoving your oar in, perhaps you might tell me when and where you've been 'censored'?

Specifically, could you list what important posts of yours have been altered, removed or edited in any way please?

The irony is that those whining the most about 'censorship' are often the ones with fucking huge post counts who have been at liberty to endlessly post up wild, evidence free claims ad infinitum while feeling the posting rules don't apply to them.

We have a policy here about conspiracy threads that endlessly repeat themselves that offer nothing new: they get binned, just like kitten threads.

Yet, we keep getting the same handful of posters shoving up the same wild, evidence-free claims, invariably sourced from the same laughably dodgy sites and it's gone beyond a joke.

As several rational posters will tell you, attempting to debate the issue is a waste of time because the conspiracy fans either refuse to back up their sources and answer direct questions, or they endlessly shift the argument around.

And that's way several posters like me have simply had enough of seeing the same fact-untroubled, attention seeking bollocks being posted up again and again and again.

These boards aren't here as a nice high profile platform for obsessed (guffaw) 'truthseekers' to abuse with their wild yarns, but even so, posters have been given every opportunity to state their case - in endless detail - for an eternity.

And now it's become boring. Very boring.

Censored, my fucking arse.

all that comment on my smilie and none on my post.

I've not personally been censored in any specific posts, as I gave up bothering posting on any of these types of threads years ago.

Guess what ?

I haven't got enough proof to absolutely prove in a court of law (the standards you seem to be demanding) that 9/11 was an inside job by corrupt rogue elements of the state.

But I've seen more than enough to convince myself and plenty of others that something VERY wrong is going on.

By the way I'm perfectly rational thanks. Infact I think it is perfectly rational to question what went on when you consider the direct consequences from what has happened since then. The various conflicts, the erosion of our freedom and rights and liberties, the very things that I thought this site was set up to challenge ?

Would you agree that since 9/11 there has been a growing apathy towards resistance and activism ? I know I have and I see a strong link between the two.

Surely you are concerned by this ?

Something stinks real bad about the whole thing and the more evidence that trickles out, the more we all become affected by the subsequent conflicts, erosion of rights etc then the more people will really accept what is happening to us through mass control and manipulation.

By then I fear it will be too late.

 

[editor]

But I've seen more than enough to convince myself and plenty of others that something VERY wrong is going on.

Sure. I've no doubt that the USG has ruthlessly exploited the events of 9/11 to erect a smokescreen of lies and disinformation to give them the excuse to ruthlessly pursue their agenda.

But how does that prove that 9/11 was all an inside job involving untold thousands of people who have all managed to remain tight lipped ever since?

 

[iROBOT]

Sure. I've no doubt that the USG has ruthlessly exploited the events of 9/11 to erect a smokescreen of lies and disinformation to give them the excuse to ruthlessly pursue their agenda.

But how does that prove that 9/11 was all an inside job involving untold thousands of people who have all managed to remain tight lipped ever since?

Yes this level of orgaisation needed goes against everything that we've learned from the Bush administration.

Piss up in brewrey come to mind. Get a grip people, Bush just isnt that clever.