9/11 military tapes released - Pentagon lied to the 9/11 commission

[pk]

Two pieces of wreckage, neither of which have been officially identified as from flight 77, and indeed the lettering looks WAY too small.

Yes, of course dear.

*pat's jazzz's head*

 

[Jazzz]

'cos you're the expert, right?

No, I'm not the expert. But perhaps, seeing as you like experts so much, you would care to quote one who has positively identified ANY piece of wreckage at the Pentagon as coming from flight 77?

http://killtown.911review.org/flight77/debris.html

 

[Jazzz]

Funny but when army engineers bring down a steel girder bridge they don't cut the steel at all. It's simply brought down by the force of the explosive.

Even if this was the case why is there no traces of Aluminium or Barium in the sample that were analysed?

Well, this wasn't army engineers bringing down a steel girder bridge, was it?

I don't know whether Aluminium of Barium was present in the samples, on what basis are you saying they weren't?

 

[WouldBe]

I don't know whether Aluminium of Barium was present in the samples, on what basis are you saying they weren't?

From the article you linked to.

Which showed iron, manganese, potassium and sulphur. No aluminium and no barium which are prescent in the thermate claimed to have been used.

 

[Techno303]

When controlled demolitions are done they use with explosives that go bang. However what they also do is cut the load bearing steel by as much as can be got away with, so that the need for the final explosive is minimised. This is presumably exactly what happened with the WTC - thermate was used perform this cutting task. Obviously, the more powerful the final explosives, the more noticeable it is going to be that explosives are present, and the more forced the collapse would look.

Isn't it amazing that they got this absolutely right the first time. Clandestinely and all.

 

[detective-boy]

Isn't it amazing that they got this absolutely right the first time. Clandestinely and all.

And they'd have got away with it if it hadn't been for those pesky conspiraloons ... sorry! ... truth-seekers...

 

[Jonti]

The paper trail on this sort of transaction leading to the ultimate beneficiary is totally transparent. End Of.

Oh, right.

So all the financial reforms (in the interests of transparency) that the USA has introduced since are pointless. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Jonti]

This would be my guess at the truth behind this one. But if the $5m remained unclaimed, either someone fucked up, or the spooks moved quickly and prevented the money moving. Who knows.

I don't know the details of the unclaimed $5m -- it's a pity the Commission did not address the point directly. But, it seems, that was just the fruits of just one transaction. There were many others (source).

Since 2001, there have been determined efforts to make financial dealings more transparent. That strongly indicates there was indeed an issue here.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Oh, right.

So all the financial reforms (in the interests of transparency) that the USA has introduced since are pointless. Thanks for clearing that up.

And your expertise in financial matters is gleaned where . . . Prison Planet?

Link to these reforms please? (suspect you're refering to the mutual fund reform - a reasonably anlagous US version of a UK pension fund)

Rhetorical question.
Exactly what part of "these are exchange traded instruments" don't you understand.

Had OBL wanted to profit then going down the OTC route would have been far more opaque (hint before you look at this . . . wiki isn't very good on OTC stuff).

Oh yes, and how do you explain the 15,000 shares this supposed insider bought?

 

[Jonti]

Insulting git aren't you?

What exactly is it that you do not understand about Banking secrecy and the problems this presented in following the money trails of the, ahh, statistically unlikely investments summarised here?

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Put up or shut up!
Third time.
How do you explain the 15,000 shares this supposed insider bought?

 

[A Dashing Blade]

. . . . ahh, statistically unlikely investments summarised here?

Ahh, the old recourse to normal distribution curves. Chances in a million happen nine times out of ten in financial markets (exagerating to prove a point). This is because market returns are lepto-kurtotic (fat-tailed). The argument "it seems unlikely therefore it must be a conspiracy" just does not stack up.

 

[Jonti]

Despite your unpleasant opening, I'd still be interested in your comments on the information in the link I posted.

But, no, I'm not going to be jerked around according to your agenda, OK

 

[A Dashing Blade]

But, no, I'm not going to be jerked around according to your agenda, OK

So that's a no then, you can't explain why your supposed insider dealer bought 15,000 shares?

+ this link to tightening up of US reporting rules that you so confidently made reference to earlier??

A quick peruse of your "evidence" I noticed this . . .
"The Bloomberg News reported that put options on the airlines surged to the phenominal high of 285 times their average. Over three days before terrorists flattened the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon, there was more than 25 times the previous daily average trading in a Morgan Stanley "put" option that makes money when shares fall below $45. Trading in similar AMR and UAL put options, which make money when their stocks fall below $30 apiece, surged to as much as 285 times the average trading up to that time.
When the market reopened after the attack, United Airlines stock fell 42 percent from $30.82 to $17.50 per share, and American Airlines stock fell 39 percent, from $29.70 to $18.00 per share."

My cat could make a better trade than that under those supposed circumstances. An order of magnitude better trade would have been to buy the $25 puts. (serious)

 

[Jonti]

Thing is, you're coming across as something of a cunt. Not that this is a recent development. That's why I'm not interested in talking with you.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Thing is, you're coming across as something of a cunt. Not that this is a recent development. That's why I'm not interested in talking with you.

Person A cites "evidence"
Person B who knows something about these matters points out the facts cited do not really "proove" the conclusion.
Person A goes all Anglo-Saxon.

Whatever.

 

[Jonti]

Yeah, whatever. Bye.

 

[Blagsta]

No, I'm not the expert. But perhaps, seeing as you like experts so much, you would care to quote one who has positively identified ANY piece of wreckage at the Pentagon as coming from flight 77?

http://killtown.911review.org/flight77/debris.html

I have no idea and no particular interest. BTW what's that link supposed to prove?

 

[Jazzz]

From the article you linked to.

Which showed iron, manganese, potassium and sulphur. No aluminium and no barium which are prescent in the thermate claimed to have been used.

Jones says that, "using advanced techniques we're finding out what's in these samples - we're finding iron, sulphur, potassium and manganese - these are characteristic of a variation of thermite which is used to cut through steel very rapidly, it's called thermate."

Just because those four elements are listed that doesn't mean it is an exclusive list. You have no argument here.

 

[WouldBe]

Just because those four elements are listed that doesn't mean it is an exclusive list. You have no argument here.

So where does the potassium come from then? That's not in thermate.

As barium nitrate constitutes 29% ish of thermate I would expect to see Barium in the sample in quite hight levels.

 

[Jazzz]

So where does the potassium come from then? That's not in thermate.

As barium nitrate constitutes 29% ish of thermate I would expect to see Barium in the sample in quite hight levels.

It doesn't appear necessary for barium nitrate to be present. But perhaps you could use potassium nitrate instead? That is speculation of course - but I rather think Steve Jones knows what he is talking about and would be careful with any conclusions he makes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermate

 

[editor]

Thing is, you're coming across as something of a cunt. Not that this is a recent development. That's why I'm not interested in talking with you.

I suppose hurling insults his way is easier than simply admitting that you're completely unable to produce an even vaguely credible defence to his argument, yes?

 

[editor]

It doesn't appear necessary for barium nitrate to be present. But perhaps you could use potassium nitrate instead? That is speculation of course - but I rather think Steve Jones knows what he is talking about and would be careful with any conclusions he makes.

FFS: we're not back on to fucking Steve Jones again, are we?



This thread is now starting to look like yet another fact-free rerun of the same old bollocks, so unless someone comes up with some credible new evidence soon, the bin awaits.

 

[WouldBe]

It doesn't appear necessary for barium nitrate to be present. But perhaps you could use potassium nitrate instead? That is speculation of course - but I rather think Steve Jones knows what he is talking about and would be careful with any conclusions he makes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermate

That article states thermate contains barium nitrate not potassium nitrate.

So now not only do we need 2 types of 'explosive' to bring the towers down but we have to specially manufacture the thermate (using potassium nitrate) instead of purchasing ready made stuff.

E2A: not to mention 2 sets of fuses and timers for each floor that need to be synchronised to make it work.

 

[Jazzz]

That article states thermate contains barium nitrate not potassium nitrate.

It says generally contains, and goes on to make out that the barium nitrate is optional.

So now not only do we need 2 types of 'explosive' to bring the towers down but we have to specially manufacture the thermate (using potassium nitrate) instead of purchasing ready made stuff.

E2A: not to mention 2 sets of fuses and timers for each floor that need to be synchronised to make it work.

Yes, of course you could just fly a plane in and hope.

 

[editor]

It says generally contains, and goes on to make out that the barium nitrate is optional.

Yes, of course you could just fly a plane in and hope.

Have you actually got any credible new evidence here or not?

 

[Techno303]

You have no argument here.

Yes he does! It is quite telling that those major constituents are not on the list. In fact I’d argue that it is quite a telling omission really. What I’d like to know is what methods were used to perform the analysis.

 

[look again]

This thread is now starting to look like yet another fact-free rerun of the same old bollocks, so unless someone comes up with some credible new evidence soon, the bin awaits.

The bin is exactly where the FAA tape from 9/11 went.

FAA Managers Destroyed 9/11 Tape

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A6632-2004May6&notFound=true

Six air traffic controllers provided accounts of their communications with hijacked planes on Sept. 11, 2001, on a tape recording that was later destroyed by Federal Aviation Administration managers, according to a government investigative report issued today.

It is unclear what information was on the tape because no one ever listened to, transcribed or duplicated it, the report by the Department of Transportation inspector general said.

According to the report, a second manager at the New York center promised a union official representing the controllers that he would "get rid of" the tape after controllers used it to provide written statements to federal officials about the events of the day.

Instead, the second manager said he destroyed the tape between December 2001 and January 2002 by crushing the tape with his hand, cutting it into small pieces and depositing the pieces into trash cans around the building, the report said.

Not suspicious?

Former Vietnam Combat and Commercial Pilot Firm Believer 9/11 Was Inside Government Job

http://www.lewisnews.com/article.asp?ID=106623

The government may have fooled millions of Americans with its cockamamie official story, but the former fighter pilot who flew over 100 combat missions in Vietnam and who sat for 35 years in the cockpit for Pan Am and United, wasn’t one of them.

“The government story they handed us about 9/11 is total B.S. plain and simple. I also thoroughly went over the recent 9/11 Commission report, finding about 110 outright lies and numerous other half-truths and omissions in an obvious cover-up of not only the truth but of a criminal investigation.

Wittenberg claimed the high speed maneuver would have surely stalled the jetliner sending it into a nose dive, adding it was “totally impossible for an amateur who couldn’t even fly a Cessna to maneuver the jetliner in such a highly professional manner, something Wittenberg said he couldn’t do with 35 years of commercial jetliner experience.

“I’ve learned over the years, it’s hard to change anybody’s mind when they really aren’t listening,” said Wittenberg. “So, I just decided to fire back a lot of questions to those people who believe the government story.

“I ask them explain how Building No.7 collapsed? I ask them why haven’t the “black boxes” been recovered? I ask them to explain how jet fuel – fuel that burns cold not hot -- could bring down two high rise structures when more than 90% of the fuel on board burned outside the buildings?”

None of his questions have ever been answered.

 

[RaverDrew]

fuel that burns cold not hot

How the fuck does that work ???

 

[Blagsta]

It doesn't, its more bollocks.