Workers Power response to SWP open letter
- Thread starter ihateblair
- Start date
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Could get back on topic, rather than Poles or North Korea
Yes. I would still like to know WPs position on voting for labour. Do they consider it to be a working class party in any way shape or form? Did they call for a vote for labour in the recent elections?
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
You'll probably have to ask WP's members/supporters for that.
However I should imagine they would argue to Vote Labour Without Illusions.
Not sure where they stood on RESPECT debacle, seem to remember they were involved in SA, but not sure.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
or just read their paper online
WP May said:
There response is simply a rather bland rstatement of their general position on the need for a new workers party, not really a 'response' to the SWP letter (and has a couple of relativel;y minor mistakes in it).
Tho at least it doesnt go 'we'd be idiots ever to trust you again. Now can we come to your conference please?' like the CPGB's does
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
There is this article on their website!
http://www.workerspower.com/index.php?id=193,2006,0,0,1,0
The best thing Bob could do is say to this lot 'Thanks but no thanks'
Allowing them in would be a kiss of poision!
"In response, all socialists should welcome any moves to a new party by Bob Crow and other union leaders. But we must fight to inject internationalist, anticapitalist and working class politics into it, and to drop the nationalist policies that No2EU has put forward so far. "
http://www.workerspower.com/index.php?id=193,2006,0,0,1,0
The best thing Bob could do is say to this lot 'Thanks but no thanks'
Allowing them in would be a kiss of poision!
"In response, all socialists should welcome any moves to a new party by Bob Crow and other union leaders. But we must fight to inject internationalist, anticapitalist and working class politics into it, and to drop the nationalist policies that No2EU has put forward so far. "
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
dylans
overlord of all acorns
There is this article on their website!
http://www.workerspower.com/index.php?id=193,2006,0,0,1,0
The best thing Bob could do is say to this lot 'Thanks but no thanks'
Allowing them in would be a kiss of poision!
"In response, all socialists should welcome any moves to a new party by Bob Crow and other union leaders. But we must fight to inject internationalist, anticapitalist and working class politics into it, and to drop the nationalist policies that No2EU has put forward so far. "
I think that is spot on. I detest the underlying nationalism and protectionism inherent in No2EU.
Think about what that above quote is saying.That a workers party should be built with internationalist and anti-imperialist politics. Given what the Labour Party has done over Iraq, a workers party that doesn't take internationalist positions on issues like Iraq, Israel and Gaza or Iran, isn't worth the trouble.
I disagree with WP on voting labour though (just read that piece and it's same old same old) The labour party offers nothing now. Time to ditch that tired old "vote labour without illusions" line.
As for Respect. I must confess I have been away for a long time and so am not up on the details but I liked Respect (what little I know about them) I liked their internationalism. Likewise for WP. I admire their positions of Israel and Gaza and Iraq.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
I was refering to SWP/WP/AWL.
If they/you are so sure that the position taken by people involved in No2Eu was so bad, go and do your own thing, don't join this dynamic under false pretences and sabotage/poision some sort of viable initiative in the Working Class/Labour movement that the SWP and or left sects have a reputation of doing.
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
whoops!
dylans
overlord of all acorns
So you are effectively telling internationalists and those who feel a genuine workers party should be internationalist, to fuck off?
You are telling those who think a workers party should be anti-imperialist, to fuck off?
You are telling those who feel that No2EU panders to nationalism and protectionism, to fuck off?
TremulousTetra
prismatic universe
Which wing of nationalism?
Well they deny being a fascist as well, so how does this get you more traction?
I have no problem with describing them as fascist, rather than NAZI. In fact I try to stick to neo fascist, when talking to fascists and supporters. However, if in general discussion I slip into this colloquialism, it's easy to explain it as a colloquialism, not meant to be taken literally. Most people are not bothered about the semantics, they understand the essence is true.
Now I agree with you that it is very very important, tactically and definition wise, to draw a major distinction between the hard core Nazis, and the many members and voters who actually share our abhorrence for the fascist views of Griffin. However, if someone does want to enter into a serious discussion, I think it is hard to dismiss Griffin's OWN description of himself as a national socialist. Except for the obvious distinction, Griffin has put the boots in the closet and got out the suit at this moment which you could argue comes out of Hitler's handbook, there are great similarities between the brown shirt wing of the national socialist movement, and Griffins ideas now. I think for Griffin there has also been a pragmatic acceptance that apartheid is more feasible than a world domination, and the final solution. However, there is a logic to fascism once in power. He is not as aware as Marxist on where his politics will ultimately take him.
So in short, I have no problems with calling him fascist, rather than NAZI. However, I think there is room for debate how national socialist Griffins ideology now is.
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
Not to 'fuck off', but accept that the initiative around Lyndsey Strike et al. ahd at least some positive points or go and form their own organisation as they have a right to under democracy.
That and act in an adult manner from what i've seen of the AWL and in recent terms WP is an impossiblity
For the SWP:
AAAaaaaaargh
AAAaaaaaargh
AAAaaaaaargh
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
i was just trying to imagine what would be the inpact on the working class of Workers power and the SWP combining but I gave up.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Sorry? Who are communalists, Respect? Why do you think they are (were) communal in their politics.
Also, 19th C trots? I thought trots were a 20th C movement?
Finally, how do either of these groups endorse "Islamic extremists?"
ihateblair
New Member
Workers Power argue against voting Labour
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Are you in WP?
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Ok fair enough. I would have been surprised if it was otherwise.
Fisher_Gate
Active Member
Workers Power were a faction in the SWP/IS once upon a time, back in the days when such things were semi-tolerated. They were expelled in 1975 IIRC.
They were state caps back then but claim to have discovered orthodox trotskyism since, and are now the only adherents of it in the whole wide world.
barney_pig
Po-cha-na-quar-hip
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
I got the impression that they were part of the 5th International.
Hardly Orthodox Trot?
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I got the impression that they were part of the 5th International.
Hardly Orthodox Trot?
There website says they call for a new (5th) international. I don't think they claim they are it though. That would be a bit presumptuous seeing that they are a very small group.
It's revealing though that this thread is 4 pages long and numerous people have expressed an interest in their politics (including me) and not one of their members has bothered to respond. This is probably the only thread on any site in the world discussing their politics and they are nowhere to be seen. Not exactly on the ball are they?
Nigel
For A Degenerates' Workers State
To be quite honest what I've met of people of Workers Power members mainly in the 1990's around such issues as Anti Fascism and projects like Workers Aid For Bosnia/Kosovo they are very good political activists, however there political theory is up in the air and hap hazard.
However recentely a group split away Permenant Revolution, who seem to be slightly better; for instance supporting Lyndsey Dispute, although I can't be bothered to plough through there theoretical paraphanalia, however from various sources i've been told it is much better.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I do agree with WP circa two years ago that the world economy has never been in better health. and will see two decades of plain sailing as it expands into china and finalises the real world market.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Wait a second.They were a group of less than 150 people and they split?
Oh my god. What differences were so ideologically important that they had to split over it?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
See my post above.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
150 is rather generous too.
Here is another, form groups that focus around simply trying to improve the lot of ordinary people rather than getting bogged down in abstract differances of ideology. (easy said then done!)
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