Woolwich soldier killed (was "Did cops just shoot 2 dead in woolwich?")

[Casually Red]

Nope, and still easy as piss to nick from barns across the UK.

More than half a ton of ammonium nitrate fertiliser, a basic ingredient of home-made explosives, was discovered at dawn in a self-storage depot in the west London suburb of Hanwell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...foiled-by-raids-in-the-heart-of-suburbia.html

 

[J Ed]

I might be being thick here, but what would happen? Counter-protests from excluded discriminatory groups? That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing - it would force the debate out into the open.

Depends. Usually what happens when there is sufficient opposition at a university to an extremist speaking at an Islamic Society event the NUS and the SU say nothing, when forced to say something they tell those organising the opposition to go and talk to the people who are inviting people to lecture with a history of calling for their deaths. Then by and large someone goes over their head to the actual university management who then either ignore it or ensure the talk doesn't happen by cancelling it citing room booking issues. Repeat ad nauseum.

Oh, and throughout all of this some left groups organise solidarity events with the Islamic Society and tell them that what is happening to them is Islamophobic while totally ignoring how awful the people are who the society keeps inviting. Which inevitably can be argued somehow by the attraction of some Islamophobes to the opposition to these sorts of events.

 

[Casually Red]

I might be being thick here, but what would happen? Counter-protests from excluded discriminatory groups? That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing - it would force the debate out into the open.

again i dont live in england but i do get a distinct sense of some people on the left subconciously checking their privilege when it comes to dealing with utterly unacceptable shit that comes from some ethnic minority groups . The plain fact is that if a white englishman was saying some of this stuff theyd go through him for a short cut . Add a bit of extra pigmentation to the skin mix and its like the vicar called round Terry and Junes house and got his cock out.....more tea ? while completely ignoring it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Depends. Usually what happens when there is sufficient opposition at a university to an extremist speaking at an Islamic Society event the NUS and the SU say nothing, when forced to say something they tell those organising the opposition to go and talk to the people who are inviting people to lecture with a history of calling for their deaths. Then by and large someone goes over their head to the actual university management who then either ignore it or ensure the talk doesn't happen by cancelling it citing room booking issues. Repeat ad nauseum.

Oh, and throughout all of some left groups organise solidarity events with the Islamic Society and tell them that what is happening to them is Islamophobic while totally ignoring how awful the people are who the society keeps inviting.

All this sort of thing was going on back in the early 90s with hizb ut tahrir. It's disappointing that 20 years on the lessons learned at the time haven't been taken on board by either student unions or universities

 

[sptme]

http://www.obv.org.uk/news-blogs/black-youth-terrorism-and-moral-blindness

 

[Pickman's model]

More than half a ton of ammonium nitrate fertiliser, a basic ingredient of home-made explosives, was discovered at dawn in a self-storage depot in the west London suburb of Hanwell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...foiled-by-raids-in-the-heart-of-suburbia.html

my plan to corner the london fertiliser market foiled

 

[1%er]

More than half a ton of ammonium nitrate fertiliser, a basic ingredient of home-made explosives, was discovered at dawn in a self-storage depot in the west London suburb of Hanwell.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...foiled-by-raids-in-the-heart-of-suburbia.html

Fuck me, that would make one hell of a bang.

 

[laptop]

my plan to corner the london fertiliser market foiled

You can re-launch it:

By John Steele, Home Affairs Correspondent
12:05AM BST 31 Mar 2004

 

[J Ed]

http://www.obv.org.uk/news-blogs/black-youth-terrorism-and-moral-blindness

Good but terrifying article. Seems like the establishment really has been wilfully blind to extremism in a lot of institutions.

 

[Casually Red]

ill just add here that home made stuff ..everything from anfo to rockets, boosters, propellants etc has been a pretty major feature of the syrian jihadist armoury . And hundreds of these guys have been over there and are still going . One way flight to turkeys barely a few hundred quid .

thank fuck i live in Ireland, that england is full of bloody terrorists

 

[Idris2002]

i
thank fuck i live in Ireland, that england is full of bloody terrorists

The ironyfulness is terrific. As is the irony involved in this, if it's confirmed:

Separately, it was claimed MI5 asked Woolwich murder suspect Michael Adebolajo if he wanted to work for them about six months before the killing, a childhood friend has said.
Abu Nusaybah told BBC Newsnight his friend - one of two men arrested after Drummer Lee Rigby’s murder in London on Wednesday - had rejected the approach.
The BBC said it could not obtain any confirmation from Whitehall sources.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/mi5-offered-job-to-woolwich-suspect-1.1406609?page=1

 

[Pickman's model]

You can re-launch it:

So it'll still be in the lock-up

 

[Corax]

Why did you underline wife rather than takes?

The thing that stuck out most to me was woman = too delicate to be on a rufty-tufty demo. You might 'take' your male mate to a demo, but not your precious betrothed... There's a point to be made about 'takes' too, but that's not what struck me most.

 

[ViolentPanda]

@maletesa

Rubbish, you spend exhortionate amount of time, energy, resources, etc attempting to defeat the EDL, often with students help, you have one big blind spot

Do you mean "exorbitant" or "extortionate"?
Either way, anti-fascists have limited resources. Independent anti-fascists don't tend to be state-funded, that's for the likes of UAF and HnH.

 

[cesare]

The thing that stuck out most to me was woman = too delicate to be on a rufty-tufty demo . There's a point to be made about 'takes' too, but that's not what struck me most.

The sexism was in the inherent assumption that the wife would be taken rather than deciding for herself.

 

[Casually Red]

oooh hes in trouble now

 

[Corax]

The sexism was in the inherent assumption that the wife would be taken rather than deciding for herself.

What the giddy fuck are you doing right now? Dictating that only one element of the sentence had anything questionable about it, and marking my response as incorrect?

WTF cesare, seriously.

 

[cesare]

oooh hes in trouble now

Not really But there's a lot of fuss about casual sexism atm, and he's taken Mal to task over it when we'd already done that

 

[cesare]

What the giddy fuck are you doing right now? Dictating that only one element of the sentence had anything questionable about it, and marking my response as incorrect?

WTF cesare, seriously.

I'm not dictating anything. But if you want to follow people round picking them up on casual sexism, you might as well do a thorough job of it.

 

[Casually Red]

The sexism was in the inherent assumption that the wife would be taken rather than deciding for herself.

I find that an atrociously patriarchal term too, like shes a mere chattel . Shes a human being, an individual with a personality, opinions, hopes and dreams. Yet he reduced her role in life to a mere sidekick known as the wife, like its her job or something .

Appaling . He should know better .

 

[cesare]

I find that an atrociously patriarchal term too, like shes a mere chattel . Shes a human being, an individual with a personality, opinions, hopes and dreams. Yet he reduced her role in life to a mere sidekick known as the wife, like its her job or something .

Appaling . He should know better .

Exactly. Plus he also should have qualified wife [in this particular family combination]. Tsk etc

 

[ViolentPanda]

the strategy is to outnumber, out propagandise and out organise in your communities

TBF, like many strategies, it's great on paper, but isn't particularly flexible in execution, especially when some of your organising is perforce done in "public". Unfortunately, anti-fascism is nowhere near as "cellular" nowadays as it was, and the term covers everyone from direct action physical force anti-fascism to shouty sloganeering children who brick it if a real bonehead comes within 15 feet of them.

 

[Casually Red]

Exactly. Plus he also should have qualified wife [in this particular family combination]. Tsk etc

probably hits her when nobodys looking too

 

[ViolentPanda]

anyone who takes wife and kids on demos is 1/ a nob, 2/ short of members! so to speak.

Or 3, attempting to "radicalise" their family/has a radicalised family.

 

[ddraig]

Was that at Manchester Uni in the late 90s?

no, there in Woolwich about half a mile from this murder
was in late 90's

 

[ViolentPanda]

Tactics, not strategies.

Well, it can be a strategy. It's just not a very good one if you have to shift off piste, as it were.

 

[ddraig]

interesting last few pages
want to formulate a post but need to be more awake as not long up

 

[cesare]

probably hits her when nobodys looking too

 

[Corax]

I'm not dictating anything. But if you want to follow people round picking them up on casual sexism, you might as well do a thorough job of it.

Can you stop telling me how to post please? Thanks.

Objecting to taking kids to a demo on the basis of them being vulnerable is debatable, but reasonable.
Putting a married woman into that category classes them as similarly vulnerable, which is patronising and hugely patriarchal shite.

The word 'takes' could equally be used when referring to 'taking' a male friend to demo. Given that women were the property of their husbands until not so long ago it's a poor choice of words, but it's more easily seen as an insensitive slip of the tongue than the point I picked up on.

Thanks for your input though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Meant to reply to this first bit last night - pretty sure you can't call my posting style academic!

I really don't get this speaking in tongues thing - i write pretty plainly and say what i mean as best and as simply as i can. That might mean something allusive sometimes, but it's never fucking show offy stuff like articul8 or people like that.

It's probably more to do with you sometimes expecting people to understand the allusions because you've credited them with broader knowledge than they have, hence the many replies to you that start "I don't get what you're saying".