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Woolwich soldier killed (was "Did cops just shoot 2 dead in woolwich?")

OMG, that arrest following newsnight interview is really scary. I haven't watched the interview, but it seems he was reporting what he knew of his friend. Why would this warrant arrest and house search? Does this mean that people will be put off speaking publicly?
 
treelover said:
So you would let the societies invite the fanatics onto the campuses, sounds like appeasement to me..
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No, I was more replying to an earlier stage of the argument where it was about the commentary from the left and the fact they weren't condemning radical islam. Where you can take *action* against bigotted and violent ideologies you should.
 
Brainaddict said:
JEd, to me it feels kind of superfluous to condemn radical islam - it would be almost ritualistic in a really pointless way. To the people who would listen to me it is already obviously bonkers. Those who are susceptible to it aren't likely to listen to me. I'm kind of happy to leave the battle against extremists to muslims - since they share much more language and have more credibility with the extremists.

I kind of agree with a lot of this post http://scriptonitedaily.wordpress.c...resist-having-our-enemies-constructed-for-us/

Is it guilty of some error for not including a paragraph saying: "Jihadist islam of this extreme type is wrong and so I condemn it and encourage people not to be involved in it"? I don't think it would be a meaningful thing to add to it.
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Not sure that you're being asked to condemn radical islam (and its telling that politics has bow becoem a matter of simply openly condemning an idea or series of ideas) but to understand what it's doing and where it comes from and by extension how to stop if being produced. Saying but the edl are racist! Nick robinson said muslim appearance doesn't do this - it refuses to do it in fact. This is a demand to look at society politically - not to condemn or take formal positions.
 
Brainaddict said:
No, I was more replying to an earlier stage of the argument where it was about the commentary from the left and the fact they weren't condemning radical islam. Where you can take *action* against bigotted and violent ideologies you should.
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In the context of university societies, I think it's quite a straightforward thing. EG: a university has a policy for equal opportunities and non-discrimination on the basis of gender or sexual orientation. Anyone who cannot comply with this policy simply is not allowed to use any university facilities.

This would be very straightforward to implement, but it isn't implemented in many places.
 
shygirl said:
OMG, that arrest following newsnight interview is really scary. I haven't watched the interview, but it seems he was reporting what he knew of his friend. Why would this warrant arrest and house search? Does this mean that people will be put off speaking publicly?
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Seems bizarre - I did watch and he came across as a bright and thoughtful young lad who had no time for this particular action. if police/spooks had further questions to ask they could have done that without an arrest I would think.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
In the context of university societies, I think it's quite a straightforward thing. EG: a university has a policy for equal opportunities and non-discrimination on the basis of gender or sexual orientation. Anyone who cannot comply with this policy simply is not allowed to use any university facilities.

This would be very straightforward to implement, but it isn't implemented in many places.
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Failing that we could get Left to impose neuroscience on them.
 
I see that the Met have said his arrest had nothing to do with his comments in the interview, however, it will still have the effect of deterring people from speaking publicly, in my view. Btw, how did they know about the interview if it hadn't yet been broadcast?
 
shygirl said:
I see that the Met have said his arrest had nothing to do with his comments in the interview, however, it will still have the effect of deterring people from speaking publicly, in my view. Btw, how did they know about the interview if it hadn't yet been broadcast?
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I suspect, as someone suggested last night, it means, here you go everyone else who may know anything at all - you come to us or we come to you.
 
butchersapron said:
Not sure that you're being asked to condemn radical islam (and its telling that politics has bow becoem a matter of simply openly condemning an idea or series of ideas) but to understand what it's doing and where it comes from and by extension how to stop if being produced. Saying but the edl are racist! Nick robinson said muslim appearance doesn't do this - it refuses to do it in fact. This is a demand to look at society politically - not to condemn or take formal positions.
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So people look at the issue politically and decide they want to talk about our foreign policy. Which they should. It would be silly not to, and it is something in which we are theoretically implicated (if you buy the liberal democracy stuff). But politically there is little most people can do about radical islam. There are a few strategies like no-platforming and so on, but most people in the UK will never encounter it in their daily lives. What political strategies do you suggest?
 
shygirl said:
I see that the Met have said his arrest had nothing to do with his comments in the interview, however, it will still have the effect of deterring people from speaking publicly, in my view. Btw, how did they know about the interview if it hadn't yet been broadcast?
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Can't be short of touts and assets at the BBC!
 
Brainaddict said:
So people look at the issue politically and decide they want to talk about our foreign policy. Which they should. It would be silly not to, and it is something in which we are theoretically implicated (if you buy the liberal democracy stuff). But politically there is little most people can do about radical islam. There are a few strategies like no-platforming and so on, but most people in the UK will never encounter it in their daily lives. What political strategies do you suggest?
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Barbecues.
 
malatesta32 said:
anyone who takes wife and kids on demos is 1/ a nob, 2/ short of members! so to speak.
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'takes wife' - might said wife not want to go herself?!! I took my child on quite a few demos in the 80's/90's, but if there was any sign of trouble (which happened on a couple of occasions), I would leave immediately. I don't class myself as a nob for taking him, tho'. Our kids our constantly exposed to mainstream thinking/propaganda, it doesn't hurt for them to be exposed to the alternatives. I don't know what demo you referred to in particular, but there are some that you might think twice about taking kids on.
 
shygirl said:
'takes wife' - might said wife not want to go herself?!! I took my child on quite a few demos in the 80's/90's, but if there was any sign of trouble (which happened on a couple of occasions), I would leave immediately. I don't class myself as a nob for taking him, tho'. Our kids our constantly exposed to mainstream thinking/propaganda, it doesn't hurt for them to be exposed to the alternatives. I don't know what demo you referred to in particular, but there are some that you might think twice about taking kids on.
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i am talking about choudhary and EDL taking kids to potentially violent situations. not meant to be strictly serious!
 
malatesta32 said:
anyone who takes wife and kids on demos is 1/ a nob, 2/ short of members! so to speak.
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And people who take husband and kids on a demo are... ?

There's a point here.

1) I have no reason to believe that the younger women who say they're insisting on wearing bigger and blacker veils, to the distress of their parents, are lying.

2) On no more basis than this, I can safely conclude that any attempt to counter the Salafist tendency (e.g. on the fringes of the Saudi-funded East London Mosque) must include contact with women - and the reality is that that must be by women.
 
manny-p said:
I was never angry. I am sitting here perfectly calm writing this. Out of all the posters who post here, you have a very academic style of writing. I don't understand what you are saying half the time so perhaps that's why I may have mis read what you have said. I don't know why you write the way you do, maybe you could tone it down abit and stop speaking in tongues.
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Meant to reply to this first bit last night - pretty sure you can't call my posting style academic! :D

I really don't get this speaking in tongues thing - i write pretty plainly and say what i mean as best and as simply as i can. That might mean something allusive sometimes, but it's never fucking show offy stuff like articul8 or people like that.
 
Brainaddict said:
Those who are susceptible to it aren't likely to listen to me. I'm kind of happy to leave the battle against extremists to muslims - since they share much more language and have more credibility with the extremists.
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How far are you willing to go with this logic? Should Muslim ticket inspectors be the only ones to fine Muslims who try to dodge fares? How far into Scientology should a Scientologist policeman be before he is able to arrest an operating thetan?

Why is it that this logic isn't applied to middle-class anti-fascists when they confront working-class fascists? For that matter, should working-class anti-fascists steer clear of middle-class fascists, since they don't share the same language and they lack credibility with the extremists?
 
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