Why the lib-dems are shit

[articul8]

Their leadership is going to cling to them anyway - yay or nay. The members are only going to challenge that if their leaderships policy is shown to not lead anywhere they want to go. That can only come from a no vote. A yes vote will cement that leadership. You are living in a fantasy land.

The members really count for fuck all. Same as Labour. A No vote might lead to some grumbles, but won't deflect Clegg from his course.

 

[frogwoman]

NO - oppose the LDs policies on cuts/deficit all alond the line. A vote against AV just tells Cameron what a great game he's played in shafting the LDs. Which is fine, except it makes getting rid of tories harder not easier.

AV doesn't go as far as I would like. But a NO vote locks the current system in place for decades. A YES vote is a step forward in breaking the "you're splitting the vote" argument against the left. That's why I'm in favour. And it's a platform for moving to a better system still.

We want him to shaft the lib dems though and shaft himself in the process.

 

[butchersapron]

The members really count for fuck all. Same as Labour. A No vote might lead to some grumbles, but won't deflect Clegg from his course.

The votes count you prat. That's what will put pressure on him and them.

 

[articul8]

In and out, for and against - and if you don't agree with what i'm paid to say this week you're a tory.

I get paid for this, rather than something else - because I happen to believe it I would probably be better paid if I didn't

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah, and johhny lydon loves butter.

 

[articul8]

The vote count you prat. That's what will put pressure on him and them.

Not in the locals though - that will make them cling to the Tories all the more to claim "we did it for the national interest" in the end. A GE is where it counts. But by that stage getting the LDs smashed will only benefit Cameron at the end of the day.

 

[butchersapron]

Up the coalition then. Can't you think this stuff through for even a second?

 

[articul8]

Yeah, and johhny lydon loves butter.

So you won't support England because Capello is paid to manage. Or like Mark E Smith because he gets paid for gigs... you're a joker

 

[articul8]

No - against the coalition but in an electorally effective way, not just all mouth

 

[butchersapron]

So you won't support England because Capello is paid to manage. Or like Mark E Smith because he gets paid for gigs... you're a joker

What world do you live in? It's so unconnected with reality that i don't know where to begin.

 

[butchersapron]

No - against the coalition but in an electorally effective way, not just all mouth

Against the coalition by supporting it because what might happen if you oppose it might be worse. I'm the joker? I take it you don't ever take this weird waffle out on the doorstep? You would be laughed off the street.

 

[articul8]

What world do you live in? It's so unconnected with reality that i don't know where to begin.

eh? Because people only ever do worthwhile stuff spontaneously, and anyone who has taken a wage for anything is corrupted? And I'm the one that's "unconnected with reality"?!

 

[stethoscope]

No - against the coalition but in an electorally effective way, not just all mouth

Just oppose the coalition outright.

 

[butchersapron]

eh? Because people only ever do worthwhile stuff spontaneously, and anyone who has taken a wage for anything is corrupted? And I'm the one that's "unconnected with reality"?!

Well you certainly appear to be imagining a lot of stuff that's not there.

 

[elbows]

Its going to be funny watching the Lib Dems try to win a campaign on this issue considering how much they have pissed off the kinds of people who would previously have been taken in by their lies.

Even the name of the proposed system is ironic, Alternative Vote backed by a party that pretended to be the real alternative but were instantly found out when it mattered.

 

[butchersapron]

Just oppose the coalition outright.

Only a tory would think thusly.

 

[articul8]

Against the coalition by supporting it because what might happen if you oppose it might be worse. I'm the joker? I take it you don't ever take this weird waffle out on the doorstep? You would be laughed off the street.

I don't support the coalition. And you know it.

 

[butchersapron]

No i don't. You dare call me a tory then cry like this?

 

[frogwoman]

But i don't see what's electorally effective about telling people to say yes to a lib dem policy which people dont want anyway.

 

[articul8]

I do oppose the coalition and it's policies. But a pro AV vote isn't a coalition policy. Which is why the Tories want to sink it. They think they've played a blinder - reducing the number of (Labour) MPs has been swallowed by LDs, but they think they can grant a referendum but sink it. If you vote NO it's playing straight into Camerons hands.

 

[articul8]

No i don't. You dare call me a tory then cry like this?

Idon't call you a tory. I simply *ask* why you are choosing to align yourself with a position backed by few other than tories.

 

[butchersapron]

If you want bring the coalition down vote no. Everyone else worked that out without your help. Catch up with us.

 

[butchersapron]

Idon't call you a tory. I simply *ask* why you are choosing to align yourself with a position backed by few other than tories.

You chose to employ a strategy aimed at labelling those who oppose you as tories. You also lie about this when called on it.

 

[butchersapron]

a position backed by few other than tories.

nutter.

 

[ymu]

After the coalition this is what FPTP government is likely to mean. AV is no more likely than FPTP to lead to hung parliaments. Indeed, in Australia (which has AV) there have been fewer hung parliaments than in the UK in the same period.

After the coalition, the Lib Dems will disappear and the Tories will stay out of power for a generation, whichever electoral system we have.

And yes - that's precisely why AV is not PR and I don't understand why anyone gives a flying fuck.

 

[articul8]

But i don't see what's electorally effective about telling people to say yes to a lib dem policy which people dont want anyway.

people are happy with the political system and the legitimacy of MPs - after the expenses crisis and everything? You think?

OK AV isn;t where we want to end up. But it makes the Tories fight for seats in the South that would be otherwise in the bag. And it allows greater space for left/anti-coalition candidates to stand without *necessarily* splitting the Labour vote.

 

[butchersapron]

We?

 

[articul8]

We those opposed to the coalition and wanting to see a left alternative emerge

 

[butchersapron]

Yeah the labour party and those who don't want to split their vote. You're rotten. Just have some principles, have some politics and stick by them. Not this paid multi-coloured adopt all positions at once bollocks.

 

[articul8]

If you want bring the coalition down vote no. Everyone else worked that out without your help. Catch up with us.

It won't. That will cement the coalition for the full term -anything else would be Ld turkeys voting for xmas