Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
you ignorant patronising wanker!
oh sorry, my
means I've no right to coment, I'm just an ignorant pleb who needs to do whatever a stockbroker tells me to do
Why the lib-dems are shit
- Thread starter butchersapron
- Start date
oh sorry, my
Victorian paternalism was at the core of things like the 1850 Public Libraries act, people thought if the poor had access to books it would improve society as a whole.
you ignorant patronising wanker!
oh sorry, my means I've no right to coment, I'm just an ignorant pleb who needs to do whatever a stockbroker tells me to do
I know it's not very fashionable to talk about cultural betterment, as opposed to say health betterement of health which has funds to encourage poor fat people to walk and run around.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Except for the books the (ex)chartists who formed the backbone of the public library movement wanted - they weren't allowed in and they were refused employment at them.
At least you've come out explicitly in favour of elite paternalism now and exposed a whole raft of your core assumptions to fresh air. I wonder how this tallies with your parties energetic destruction of any historical legacy of Chamberlain style local authorities? At least those people recognised in some form that civil liberties are set within wider social relations/conditions and that inequality fundamentally and fatally undermines them. Unlike you crude orange bookers.
At least you've come out explicitly in favour of elite paternalism now and exposed a whole raft of your core assumptions to fresh air. I wonder how this tallies with your parties energetic destruction of any historical legacy of Chamberlain style local authorities? At least those people recognised in some form that civil liberties are set within wider social relations/conditions and that inequality fundamentally and fatally undermines them. Unlike you crude orange bookers.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I don't need you to educate me, 'better me' or civilise me, you arrogant, ignorant knobend
e2a: we don't need you to inflict your condescending ideas of the 'better' people we should be. We need you to ensure our communities have the resources so that we can do it ourselves.
Except, with the huge cuts you're pushing through, you are going to do precisely the opposite - wage economic war on hard-pressed, inner-city communities
The powers that be at the time probably feared everyone going to libraries filled with subversive material. I’m suggesting people have access to free and open libraries .
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
I don't think you'd understand betterment for those in poor areas moon23 if it hit you with a privatised bus service.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No, it's not fashionable to portray social prejudice as a coherent political philosophy. Actually, it is. It's what's holding you and the historical tories together
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Do people here really oppose Crozier's attempts to modernise Royal Mail? British Airways attempts to be flexible? The EU's attempts to rationalise? How could anyone oppose them - the words alone are enough surely?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
...and i'm suggesting that your historical knowledge leaves a lot to be desired and that the same sort of gaps and ignorance applies to your understanding of the full social implications of modern day politics - esp those that your extremist party is imposing.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
That would be why education and local services such as public libraries are being cut so drasticlaly then. Silly me.
I don't need you to educate me, 'better me' or civilise me, you arrogant, ignorant knobend
No, but you needed an education system and access to sources of public knowledge. I'm just saying that the risk of creating ghettoes is a valid point raised when considering lowing housing benefit. I don't see what is so wrong about arguing that you should pool poor people together.
It's pretty obvious that lot's of problems like teenage pregnancy come from a 'benefits culture' where quite a few generations of people living in the same poor estate have really low expectations and access to culture or education.
It’s our responsibility to help these people, it’s not patronizing, it’s simply being civil & kind.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
If the Lib Dems want to save libraries, they shouldn't have shacked up with the Tories and u-turned on the harshness of cuts.
I think free enterprise helps, part of the problem in many poor areas is a total reliance on the state. I think you need free enterprise but also a socially liberal helping hand in the form of universal eduction etc.
_angel_
.
They had the workhouse ffs!
The govt plans for council housing are basically to try and make the ghettoes of complete poverty, so anyone with a job etc gets moved out ASAP and no sense of community because they will be so temporary.
i_got_poison
New Member
back to safe labour stomping ground. egalitarianism and class struggle! it's funny how for most of this decade alot of you were armed with your
credit cards and living a life of ease. none of you can really claim to know real poverty. even the merest hint of it, (with these fiscal cuts) has this forum's
members breaking a sweat and screaming foul.
no doubt worried about their fake bourgeois lifestyles and propensity for free money.
not so much working class as entitlement class
credit cards and living a life of ease. none of you can really claim to know real poverty. even the merest hint of it, (with these fiscal cuts) has this forum's
members breaking a sweat and screaming foul.
no doubt worried about their fake bourgeois lifestyles and propensity for free money.
not so much working class as entitlement class
They are being cut to help prevent an economic disaster that would result in even less money to spend. Spending as a % of GDP is not varying hugely as disscussed elsewhere.
I'm not saying that the workhouses were a good idea, obviously Victorian society is not some ideal model. It just had some good aspects to it.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Yeah it's 41% (minus 6%). In same way that the min wage is £20 an hour (minus £15).
_angel_
.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh, we might have lost you to the arsenic found in so many victorian things. and that would be no loss.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
trans:
i_got_poison said:
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
newsflash: people on benefits are part of society
Yes, but they often feel on the edge of it or excluded from it. Social exclusion is a problem with people living in poor ghettoes.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
So you oppose the budget and the cuts to come then. Finally - some sense.
I think there is a danger that problems with housing are seen simply as a matter of targets and state provision. Ultimately I don't think the state can resolve all of these problems on it's own, and it requires people who have pride in themselves and are capable enough of providing the means to be resourceful and fend for themselves.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what i think you mean is you're a social darwinist.
I ideologicaly oppose cuts in services that help ensure poor people have a fair start in life, but accept that due to the current economic situation we have to reduce spending.
Personally I would scrap trident, reduce all IT spending on major projects and shrink the armed forces by 50%.
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