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Why the lib-dems are shit

They're in a bit of a bind here tbf, Labour have played this well. The Libs want to keep hold of the 2017 Labour voters who've come over to them purely on the Brexit issue, but their main route to gaining seats at the next election is by attracting liberal tories who can't abide Corbyn. So they can't agree to this, but also can't not. :cool:

It's highly enjoyable. Everything they wanted, in the worst possible way :D.
 
The thing is though it's not even an alliance - labour don't have to give the lib dems an inch, what option do they have other than to fall in line and bring down Johnson and back Corbyn?
 
All That Is Solid ...: The Liberal Democrats' Worst Nightmare

It's not been a good day for the Liberal Democrat leader, Jo Swinson. Still on a high after snatching a seat at the Brecon by-election, chillaxing in the after glow of picking up another recruit from the much-missed Change UK, and making uncomfortable waves for Labour with her Tom Watson chum-in, I expect she arose this morning felling quite chuffed.

And then that utter bastard Jeremy Corbyn went and ruined everything.

In his letter to the leaders of opposition parties, and the smattering of independents and disgruntled Tories, he holds out the hand of friendship. To stop no deal, in the event of a successful no confidence in Boris Johnson's government JCorbz proposes a Labour-led caretaker government that would apply for an Article 50 extension and call a general election in which Labour would campaign on the basis of a second referendum with the option of remaining. Surely the Liberal Democrats, the self-styled party of remain would applaud Labour's move to stop no deal. After all, this disastrous outcome must be avoided at all costs, yes?

Not on your nelly. Throughout the day the LibDems have doubled down on their refusal to back Labour's plan. This is despite a positive reception from Caroline Lucas (partly making up for the weekend's nonsense), a cautious welcome from pro-EU Tories, and pressure from centrist Labour MPs. Awkwardly, even Sarah Wollaston, the newest LibDem MP, has shown a flash of pragmatism. And so watching LibDems, FBPE weirdos, the remnants of Change UK, and Z-list celebrities lose the plot on Twitter this afternoon was the most fun I've had on that blasted platform for many a year. Because for all their bluster, Labour's plan against no deal is the LibDems' worst nightmare.

First off, name me a single LibDem policy that isn't punting for a second referendum. Unless you're a real nerd or the LibDem spox for something or another, you can't name one. Just as Nigel Farage cornered Brexit in the dog days of Theresa May's premiership, the LibDems under Uncle Vince and Jo Swinson believed, not unreasonably, that they could do the same by positioning their party as the remain party. And what do you know, it worked for this year's EU elections. In a second order election given to the venting of frustrations, they took moderate pro-EU voters off the Tories and remainy Labour voters (and not a few members) impatient at its refusal to simply become an outright remain party. In the victory flush, the party calculated they could carry on and repair the damage inflicted on them by their near-death coalition experience years ahead of the most optimistic forecasts of recovery. They didn't pay attention to the pivoting toward a second referendum by Labour's leadership and, well, the small matter of repeatedly trooping the PLP through the voting lobbies against May's deal and no deal. The notion Corbyn is a secret Brexiteer around whom Stalinoid pig iron and tractor fetishists enforced the leader's will with a chain link lash meant there was absolutely no chance he'd seize the initiative back from the LibDems. Hubris and Nemesis, when will they ever learn.

By refusing Labour's offer, Swinson and co. are left with a rump of hard remainers and very little else. And by accepting Corbyn's proposal, their strategy collapses and they lose some of the voters they've recently won over anyway. Sucks to be them, but also sucks to be us if they are prepared to kamikaze and throw away the opportunity of thwarting no deal - the position they've staked everything on. Oh yes, and there is another matter of self-interest the LibDems won't declare that has a bearing on their decision-making. Polling consistently shows the SNP are surging in Scotland thanks to the ongoing Brexit nonsense and the distinctly English nationalist tone pushed by Johnson and friends. We're not talking 2015 tsunami here, but certainly enough to knock back the 2017 Tory, Labour and LibDem recovery. Would Swinson's East Dunbartonshire seat be one of those to fall? Ordinarily, a 6,000-strong majority is a comfortable cushion to have, and she shouldn't have anything to worry about. Ordinarily.

Once again, Corbyn's opponents have grossly underestimated the Labour leader and believed their own hype about their genius and savvy. They've got caught out, and are getting rinsed. We now have a clear road map about what can be done. Will it work? Who can say, but all of a sudden it's Labour who are offering a solution out of the Brexit impasse. The choice is now clear: no deal and all that entails with Boris Johnson, or a deal or no Brexitwith Jeremy Corbyn. What's it to be?
 
Carshalton & Wallington; 57% L
Brake knows full well that when the next GE will be cast as a 'people vis Parliament' poll with the tories presented by the media as the 'people's party' of Brexit, he'll be gone.

Locally the tories have ditched the 3 times unsuccessful challenger (the Heir presumptive of the Baronetcy etc etc.) and picked a local, sec. mod. educated, openly gay candidate.

Brake's gone.

upload_2019-8-28_10-29-10.png
 
Brake knows full well that when the next GE will be cast as a 'people vis Parliament' poll with the tories presented by the media as the 'people's party' of Brexit, he'll be gone.

Locally the tories have ditched the 3 times unsuccessful challenger (the Heir presumptive of the Baronetcy etc etc.) and picked a local, sec. mod. educated, openly gay candidate.

Brake's gone.

View attachment 182314
wouldn't be sure about that - a lot of those Labour votes will move to lib dem - how're the tories going to grow their share?
 
The bleed between people who voted lib dem in 2017 and people who're going to vote Tory in 2019 is tiny. It's not going to happen.
 
Fair enough.
It's where I live and I think differently.
Time will tell.
There was movement from lib dems to tories in 2015 (as happened in Sutton & Cheam) and maybe some in 2017: it's pretty maxed out now though, and a load of the lib dem > labour voters from 2017 will be moving back this time, especially in such a marginal seat.
 
It would be nice for the Lib Dems to become an established third force in politics after all of this Brexit mess, but I fear FPTP really works against them in this regard. That said, with how disillusioned people are becoming with the mainstream parties and politics in general they might be ideally placed to capitalise.
 
It would be nice for the Lib Dems to become an established third force in politics after all of this Brexit mess, but I fear FPTP really works against them in this regard. That said, with how disillusioned people are becoming with the mainstream parties and politics in general they might be ideally placed to capitalise.
What do you think this thread is called? FFS
 
What do you think this thread is called? FFS
Why the Lib Dems are Shit - what do you think it's called? ;)

I just think another large party in politics is a good thing, forcing compromise over single-bloody-mindedness. Lib Dems are most likely to achieve that. They're no favourite of mine, and their handling of Brexit has made me dislike them even more - especially seeing as Swinson can't put party politics aside long enough to see they've got to work with Labour this time around, not just tangentially sort of align with them.

I suppose, more accurately, I like the idea the Lib Dems currently represent - a third party in British Politics.
 
Why the Lib Dems are Shit - what do you think it's called? ;)

I just think another large party in politics is a good thing, forcing compromise over single-bloody-mindedness. Lib Dems are most likely to achieve that. They're no favourite of mine, and their handling of Brexit has made me dislike them even more - especially seeing as Swinson can't put party politics aside long enough to see they've got to work with Labour this time around, not just tangentially sort of align with them.

I suppose, more accurately, I like the idea the Lib Dems currently represent - a third party in British Politics.
in the same way the gendarmerie represent a third force in french policing?
 
Why the Lib Dems are Shit - what do you think it's called? ;)

I just think another large party in politics is a good thing, forcing compromise over single-bloody-mindedness. Lib Dems are most likely to achieve that. They're no favourite of mine, and their handling of Brexit has made me dislike them even more - especially seeing as Swinson can't put party politics aside long enough to see they've got to work with Labour this time around, not just tangentially sort of align with them.

I suppose, more accurately, I like the idea the Lib Dems currently represent - a third party in British Politics.
This thread isn't for extremism like that, it's for sensible grown up discussion of how and why they are shit.
 
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