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Why the lib-dems are shit

As noted on the Brexit thread Ed 'who?' Davey has decided a government of national unity led by cooper or benn is the way forward.

However he also said that he wouldn't want Corbyn as PM under any circumstances - presumably then even if it meant stoping Brexit. And also of course no regrets on austerity





So ruddy brave making all those tough decisions
 
Centre left my arse. They're not a centre left party but a liberal party.

Going back a bit here's SplinteredSunrise's response to the Tory liberal coalition.

Shit on toast

Like I suppose most of you reading this, I’m feeling a bit depressed tonight. Awful as New Labour has been in many ways, the return of Tory government will do that to you. I’ll reflect on the Tories when I’m feeling a bit less dyspeptic. What I will say tonight is, I hope all those lefties who fell for Cleggmania and have spent the last three or four weeks boosting the Fib Dims are feeling a bit silly now. Because anyone who was paying attention could have seen this coming.

Yes, you know who you are. You let your enthusiasm run away with you. You wanted to believe we were still in 2005, with that nice antiwar Charlie Kennedy taking a stance to the left of Labour. You didn’t think the Orange Book was of any importance. You assumed they were a left-liberal party, even as they said they were a liberal party. You dismissed out of hand the suggestion that Nick Clegg was basically a dispositional Tory who couldn’t exist in the Tory Party purely because of its stance on Europe. You found that nice Vince Cable so reassuring, at least if you just listened to his soothing voice and didn’t pay too much attention to what he was saying. You were impressed by Evan Harris, with his groovy ideas about euthanasia and libel reform. And didn’t they look fresh and shiny and new?

It was so easy, wasn’t it, to see the Lib Dems as you wanted them. All you needed to know was that they weren’t the other two. If you were of a left-liberal disposition, it was so tempting to envision the Lib Dems as being like Labour only better – without the war and authoritarianism, without the dreadful Gordon Brown and all his grey placemen, without those boring trade unions – but new and hip and young, like Labour only without the disadvantages. And even as Cleggy signalled for anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear that he was going to go with the Tories, you could allow yourself – just for a few days – to dream of the progressive majority. Well, we all make errors of judgement. When you’re finished shouting at the TV, you should take a deep breath, put the kettle on and think things over.
Click to expand...
 
Ed Davey seems to be doing a Chuka and massively deluding himself over how much influence he has. If there is a GE soon, the LibDems will probably get a fair number of extra seats but so what. A majority of either side wouldn't need them. I can't imagine another Tory-LibDem coalition, the last one was disastrous for the LibDems and they are totally opposed on the most important issue in current politics.
Unfortunately for the LibDems there is a new major force in UK politics that there wasn't when they last held the balance of power, to wit the SNP, currently with 3 times as many seats as the LibDems and almost certainly will still hold more even after a GE.
It makes far more sense for a Labour minority to approach the SNP first and only approach the LibDems if they need the support of both. In which case the LibDems are going to be the smallest group in an alliance of three hardly a position to lay down rules about an acceptable PM
 
I had a conversation with a lib dem before the 2015 (?) GE. to put it in context the LDs are the only party round here who could unseat the tory.

LD "Can we rely on your vote?"
Me "No, your party lied about student fees"
LD "that was 5 years ago, and we have apologised"
Me "no fucking use - my daughter is at uni now"

was I wrong?
 
mx wcfc said:
I had a conversation with a lib dem before the 2015 (?) GE. to put it in context the LDs are the only party round here who could unseat the tory.

LD "Can we rely on your vote?"
Me "No, your party lied about student fees"
LD "that was 5 years ago, and we have apologised"
Me "no fucking use - my daughter is at uni now"

was I wrong?
Click to expand...
Well the 2017 election Labour's pledge to students was uncosted and undeliverable.. So you should cross them off the list too
 
gosub said:
Well the 2017 election Labour's pledge to students was uncosted and undeliverable.. So you should cross them off the list too
Click to expand...
So is it better to plunge our young people into debt? Shouldn't the country invest in educating people? ffs, tax the rich.

The biggest problem is actually that the country pushes plenty of scientists through Uni, but they get paid far better by going on to be lawyers and accountants and bankers/financiers. research scientists, who do something useful, get paid fuck all.

Rant over, I can't be arsed to have a row about this.
 
gosub said:
Well the 2017 election Labour's pledge to students was uncosted and undeliverable.. So you should cross them off the list too
Click to expand...

I am not sure that "uncosted and undeliverable" point really is a valid criticism, given that the amount of debt built up by the current (presumably costed and affordable) system passed £100bn in March of 2017 and will probably get past £200bn in the next decade if something is not done.
 
agricola said:
I am not sure that "uncosted and undeliverable" point really is a valid criticism, given that the amount of debt built up by the current (presumably costed and affordable) system passed £100bn in March of 2017 and will probably get past £200bn in the next decade if something is not done.
Click to expand...
Numbers aren't actually the issue due to the way money works. It's staying in the zone where safe money can lend to you is what it's all about. And ten years ago we were about to slip out of that zone... Austerity an deficit reduction were in city terms purely about being seen to make an effort to stop debt spiraling. Getting rid of the deficit means just that the books balance. Though Im not sure but I think if a country like the UK actually did pay off all its creditors it would break the system
 
Plumdaff said:
Most Northern European countries have free higher education. Why is it so impossible for us to do the same?
Click to expand...

Its not impossible and is very palatable to my political outlook, but sstop diluting education and pushing as many as possible through university.
 
We have very different debt laws to the US but student debt is in the closest bracket to UK outlook, and this video shows how fucked up their parallel path has become.


It is a long way from the historic maintaining a skilled workforce is in the national interest
 
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gosub said:
Numbers aren't actually the issue due to the way money works. It's staying in the zone where safe money can lend to you is what it's all about. And ten years ago we were about to slip out of that zone... Austerity an deficit reduction were in city terms purely about being seen to make an effort to stop debt spiraling. Getting rid of the deficit means just that the books balance. Though Im not sure but I think if a country like the UK actually did pay off all its creditors it would break the system
Click to expand...
Oh dear.
 
gosub said:
Numbers aren't actually the issue due to the way money works. It's staying in the zone where safe money can lend to you is what it's all about. And ten years ago we were about to slip out of that zone... Austerity an deficit reduction were in city terms purely about being seen to make an effort to stop debt spiraling. Getting rid of the deficit means just that the books balance. Though Im not sure but I think if a country like the UK actually did pay off all its creditors it would break the system
Click to expand...
Human lives reduced to a balance sheet
 
7.5% for the chuks LOL. As if.

Suspect some dodgy extrapolation going on here, not going to happen.
 
Shitness of Lib Dems in a nutshell: I had to hunt as far as Page 5 of this forum to dig up this thread, despite the fact the result of their leadership contest should be out this afternoon. Not exactly grabbing the headlines.

Looks to be Swinson, who will forever be autocorrected to Swindon. Among her other skills are ‘not being Ed Davey’, which is kind of thankful given this kind of bollocks:

Meanwhile, setting out his pitch, Sir Ed previously said the UK needs "a new economic model" and "making capitalism turn green so Britain is a world green finance capital".
Click to expand...

Anyway, will this improve their fortunes? Swinson seems quite likeable, but an influx of Tory defectors might toxify the brand a bit and remind people of the fuckover of 2010-2015 that they were part of.
 
Swinson isn't helped in that she's an Orange Booker who called for a statue of Margaret Thatcher to be put up as she was "a strong woman" or words to that effect. Perhaps, but what of the women who suffered due to her policies?
 
Ptolemy said:
Swinson isn't helped in that she's an Orange Booker who called for a statue of Margaret Thatcher to be put up as she was "a strong woman" or words to that effect. Perhaps, but what of the women who suffered due to her policies?
Click to expand...

Ed Davey is also an Orange Booker.
 
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