Why the lib-dems are shit

[Santino]

Look at this blatant bit of pro-Lib Dem advertising from Bill Gates:

 

[London_Calling]

Butchers - I don't understand how that supports your position:

Until B happens the answer is no, and when B does happen we will meet to discuss it.


It pretty well summarises diplomacy.

 

[sihhi]

because nick clegg is a man without spine

on his mep past on November 27, 2002

Sometimes, as I have voted to make sweeping changes to swaths of EU legislation affecting the UK, I have felt a little squeamish that I am doing so on a shaky mandate from British voters - only one in four bothered to vote in the last Euro elections.

Shake his mandate to its core, persuade your friends and families to organise trade unions and not to vote for the lib dems.

 

[Corax]

Good article by Hari in the Huffington Post. Particularly liked this bit:

To understand what these forces are, you have to start with a fact that is usually kept obscure: Britain is a country with a large liberal-left majority. Eighty-five per cent of us say the gap between rich and poor should be "much smaller", and a majority would get there by introducing a maximum wage that caps the incomes of the rich at £135,000 a year. Fifty-eight per cent support a dramatic increase in the minimum wage. Fifty-eight per cent want to ditch Trident - an act of unilateral nuclear disarmament. Seventy-seven per cent want to bring the troops home from Afghanistan now, or within a year at the latest. Fifty-three per cent say people come out of prison worse than they go in, and would rather spend money on more youth clubs than on more prison places.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/the-forces-blocking-briti_b_548800.html

 

[butchersapron]

Butchers - I don't understand how that supports your position:

Until B happens the answer is no, and when B does happen we will meet to discuss it.


It pretty well summarises diplomacy.

It's simple - you said that the lib-dems opportunistically said they'd be prepared to support a war that went through the proper legal channels because they knew full well that this would never happen and offered Chirac's apparent statement that he'd flat out veto a 2nd resolution as evidence of this. Now, aside from the fact that this apparent statement appeared 5 months after the lib-dems started using this argument it now now turns out that this wasn't Chirac's position at all, and what you've offered as evidence was in fact a distorted position that was cooked up those who wanted to use such a position to go to war.

Your argument has fallen apart - a 2nd resolution was not only possible during the 5 months before the crucial debate in which Chirac made his statement, but was also possible after that.

 

[Corax]

Shake his mandate to its core, persuade your friends and families to organise trade unions and not to vote for the lib dems.

Vote labour instead, or tory? Or for someone with fuck all chance of any influence?

 

[London_Calling]

The circumstances for a second resolution as laid out by Chirac were impossible - that was common knowledge to anyone familiar with Ritter and 7 years of UNSCOM reporting.

btw, I have to go now.

 

[sihhi]

It's a shit article it assumes that most lib dem voters are 'social democratic' which isn't defined and fails to register that a very significant amount of lib dem support comes from being the anti-labour (labour who are defined as 'social democratic') where tories vote lib dem against labour councils or labour national governments.

 

[Wolfie Smith]

because nick clegg is a man without spine

on his mep past on November 27, 2002

Sorry..how does Clegg expressing regret that not more than a quarter of the electorate bothered to vote in the Euro election mean that he lacks spine?

 

[sihhi]

Vote labour instead, or tory? Or for someone with fuck all chance of any influence?

LibDem, Tory, Labour - all the same - politics is the shadow cast on society by business.
Defend in a sensible way, form trade unions where none exist, attack job closing managers from other workplaces just do things.

 

[butchersapron]

The circumstances for a second resolution as laid out by Chirac were impossible - that was common knowledge to anyone familiar with Ritter and 7 years of UNSCOM reporting.

Were they? What circumstances were these?

 

[sihhi]

Sorry..how does Clegg expressing regret that not more than a quarter of the electorate bothered to vote in the Euro election mean that he lacks spine?

He would not have taken up his position as MEP if he was at all serious citing the lack of mandate from the people.

Since he didn't and enforced new disgusting EU laws anyway he is a hypocrite - wouldn't you agree?

 

[Corax]

LibDem, Tory, Labour - all the same - politics is the shadow cast on society by business.
Defend in a sensible way, form trade unions where none exist, attack job closing managers from other workplaces just do things.

It's not worked though. It's like the "War on Drugs" - at some point you have to accept that it's a lost battle. The Lib Dems would push for a form of PR. A shit form of PR, but at least it's a small step. PR would allow the 'minority' parties a greater say. It would be a small step towards combating the very problem (all the same) you're citing.

They've also got people like Evan Harris, who champions evidence-based decision making. His star appears to be rising. If people like him can gain influence, that can only be a good thing.

 

[Wolfie Smith]

He would not have taken up his position as MEP if he was at all serious citing the lack of mandate from the people.

Since he didn't and enforced new disgusting EU laws anyway he is a hypocrite - wouldn't you agree?

I don't think that sitting as an MEP precludes you from wishing that more people had got involved in the political process and voted.

I must admit I know nothing about his voting record as an MEP. Which was the most 'disgusting' law he voted in favour of?

 

[Pickman's model]

Which was the most 'disgusting' law he voted in favour of?

isn't that a very personal question?

 

[sihhi]

It's not worked though. It's like the "War on Drugs" - at some point you have to accept that it's a lost battle. The Lib Dems would push for a form of PR. A shit form of PR, but at least it's a small step. PR would allow the 'minority' parties a greater say. It would be a small step towards combating the very problem (all the same) you're citing.

They've also got people like Evan Harris, who champions evidence-based decision making. His star appears to be rising. If people like him can gain influence, that can only be a good thing.

Don't be joking his star in the media world might be rising, but in the real world of policies, his left wing ones such as cancelling university tuition fees etc have been utterly rejected by the lib dem leadership and its manifesto.

 

[Corax]

Don't be joking his star in the media world might be rising, but in the real world of policies, his left wing ones such as cancelling university tuition fees etc have been utterly rejected by the lib dem leadership and its manifesto.

But the alternatives? You've not addressed the substance of my point, have you?

 

[sihhi]

But the alternatives? You've not addressed the substance of my point, have you?

Make your own alternatives, evan harris is not an alternative, he tows the party line he now supports university fees, stop pretending that he is.

 

[sihhi]

I don't think that sitting as an MEP precludes you from wishing that more people had got involved in the political process and voted.

I must admit I know nothing about his voting record as an MEP. Which was the most 'disgusting' law he voted in favour of?

Just about any one regarding business or industry:

There are over 15,000 professional lobbyists who for a living work to influence the MEPs in Brussels, their laws and directives basically support softening welfare spending to open up the path for privatisation.

 

[Corax]

Make your own alternatives, evan harris is not an alternative, he tows the party line he now supports university fees, stop pretending that he is.

So in terms of a vote, you'd prefer to posture and feel righteous?

You're not addressing the point at all.

It's not worked though. It's like the "War on Drugs" - at some point you have to accept that it's a lost battle. The Lib Dems would push for a form of PR. A shit form of PR, but at least it's a small step. PR would allow the 'minority' parties a greater say. It would be a small step towards combating the very problem (all the same) you're citing.

My own ideal centres on Berkman's ideas - but it ain't gonna happen, not at the moment. Do I write You're All Cunts on my ballot paper or do I take a more pragmatic approach?

 

[William of Walworth]

Sorry..how does Clegg expressing regret that not more than a quarter of the electorate bothered to vote in the Euro election mean that he lacks spine?

He would not have taken up his position as MEP if he was at all serious citing the lack of mandate from the people.
Since he didn't and enforced new disgusting EU laws anyway he is a hypocrite - wouldn't you agree?

What makes you think Clegg's an MEP, or ever was??

 

[butchersapron]

His election to the European parliament.

 

[sihhi]

His election to the European parliament.

Priceless.

 

[sihhi]

My own ideal centres on Berkman's ideas - but it ain't gonna happen, not at the moment. Do I write You're All Cunts on my ballot paper or do I take a more pragmatic approach?

Bloody hell! I didn't see this! Berkman as in Berkman the anarcho-communist?

I'll have to respond to this later.

 

[ymu]

If this thing is true about Liberals winning seats translating into Labour having the most seats in total, there are some attractive bets on offer! Lots of 4-1 bets around for Labour having the most seats.

I got 16.5-1 on a Labour majority the day Ashcroft was forced to come clean. The Tories are fucking this campaign up beautifully.

 

[kabbes]

I got 16.5-1 on a Labour majority the day Ashcroft was forced to come clean. The Tories are fucking this campaign up beautifully.

Overall majority or just the most seats? If the latter then

 

[Bailey]

The LibDem leaflets / letters delivered here so boring. Basically nothing on what the MP would do for us they just allways constantly repeat. "Labour don't stand a chance here so it's us or more of the current con cunt"

 

[Corax]

Bloody hell! I didn't see this! Berkman as in Berkman the anarcho-communist?

I'll have to respond to this later.

That one, yes. I'm not as politically learned as many on here seem to be, but Alex Berkman's stuff describes my idea of utopia. I don't see it happening though.

 

[William of Walworth]

Re Clegg being an MEP at one time

His election to the European parliament.

I failed to Google/check, so embarassment suitably felt. Apols to sihhi then ... at self ...

Just that I don't remember him ever being an MEP -- I was only aware of him him after he got to be an MP in Sheffield -- and I was only aware of his Euro background in terms of that time he worked for Leon Britton.

 

[London_Calling]

I got 16.5-1 on a Labour majority the day Ashcroft was forced to come clean. The Tories are fucking this campaign up beautifully.

They're currently 20.0 for an overall majority.
Hung: 1.7
Etonians: 2.84

Spot when the first debate happened: