Why the Green Party is shit

[Bernie Gunther]

Also very concerned given this performance that she's apparently insisting she'll be doing both the tv debates rather than sharing it with Caroline Lucas, who I think would have given a much better performance than this.

Could have been worse. At least it's not David Icke anymore

 

[elbows]

I wasn't giving a fully thought out explanation, more an illustration of the sort of alternative defence of those policies they could make rather than just trying to cost them out in simple terms as Neil was doing.

She kept trying to go back to her choice of narratives, but he had too many cost-related questions lined up.

I'll probably wait till their costed version is available before exploring further. But yes, there appear to be a vast number of differences between their stated position on many issues, and the views you have expressed on this thread. I bet the multitude of issues that got raised as part of our argument, e.g. issues of trade and supporting heavy industry, would turn up a few for a start.

 

[treelover]

This will always happen with 'utopian policies' they will be savaged as they they can't, yet, be made concrete or even costed.

btw, in some ways it has been the same with Andy Burnham, and his idea of combining the NHS with social care, he has struggled to convey what it entails.

 

[J Ed]

Green Party defence policy is to be really annoying

 

[kebabking]

so, after The Great Leaders' triumph on the Politics show on sunday, what odds do we place on the Men in Grey Sandals of the GP advising said Great Leader that she should not involve herself in the squalid, and frankly vulgar, business of talking to the media - or indeed anyone - and that she should leave such pettiness to her minions (Caroline Lucas, just as a random name pulled from a hat...) while concentrating her undoubted energies on strategic direction and perhaps a fact finding mission to assess and highlight the effects of climate change on the Venezualan Arse Wasp?

 

[DotCommunist]

if she was drowning I'd help her out of the river. If Andrew fucking Niel was drowning I'd put my foot on his head. Shit, I'd have pushed him off the bridge in the first place

 

[J Ed]

if she was drowning I'd help her out of the river. If Andrew fucking Niel was drowning I'd put my foot on his head. Shit, I'd have pushed him off the bridge in the first place

I agree, she isn't my favourite but Andrew Neil is a climate change denying Tory - he has a special hatred for environmentalists and gave her a much harder time than he would a right-wing politico

 

[brogdale]

I agree, she isn't my favourite but Andrew Neil is a climate change denying Tory - he has a special hatred for environmentalists and gave her a much harder time than he would a right-wing politico

All true, but with his 'forensic' 'actuarial approach to policy costings he's a bit of a one-trick pony. Any party leader/spokesperson who purports to present a credible parliamentary alternative should expect just that from brillo.

Some of their policy ideas seem fine, but to go on TV so badly prepared was very naive.

 

[hot air baboon]

...not sure he was going too far out of his way to give her a harder time... it seemed pretty standard Neil but just looked worse because she was on the ropes from the bell & could hardly get her gloves up to defend herself let alone do the dodging & weaving necessary to get out of tough interviews without a black eye ......so bad she may even get some sympathy votes....

...not as if any of the other parties ever answer the "....give a list of revenue raising measures with figures..." question apart from UKIP who can just say cancel foreign aid 11 billion quid, come out of the EU X bn ( whatever it is ) ...and it still sounds like uncredible bullshit ...

 

[belboid]

I doubt she's ever faced a really serious grilling over the finances before ,they usually leave it to one of their MEP's. The party also doesn't generally hypothecate their spending plans in the same way as other parties (with Policy A being paid for specifically by tax B and cut C) so she was on a stickier wicket than she might have been. But she still did crap and should have been way way better prepared.

 

[butchersapron]

I reckon finding out she's an aussie will have done the most harm.

 

[belboid]

And why does she always hang her head to one side when she's speaking? Looks like its going to fall off.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I reckon finding out she's an aussie will have done the most harm.

I think you may actually be right.

On a different note I'd have thought that for the Greens, as for UKIP at the present time, the point would be to stress how the existing parties have cocked things up over such a sustained period and now have no new solutions to the problems they have helped to create; what is needed is a radical departure...let's be brave and hopeful.

You can then chuck it back at the interviewer that they are acting as a more or less privileged apologist for a status quo; a status quo which is demonstrably failing most people. In a nut shell tell Neil (or whoever) that his number crunching myopia has failed, so he should move on and ask some different questions; questions which actually address the problems people are facing.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[brogdale]

I think you may actually be right.

On a different note I'd have thought that for the Greens, as for UKIP at the present time, the point would be to stress how the existing parties have cocked things up over such a sustained period and now have no new solutions to the problems they have helped to create; what is needed is a radical departure...let's be brave and hopeful.

You can then chuck it back at the interviewer that they are acting as a more or less privileged apologist for a status quo; a status quo which is demonstrably failing most people. In a nut shell tell Neil (or whoever) that his number crunching myopia has failed, so he should move on and ask some different questions; questions which actually address the problems people are facing.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

One of the key advantages of not admitting to any policies/manifesto commitments is that you can't then be asked to cost them.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

One of the key advantages of not admitting to any policies/manifesto commitments is that you can't then be asked to cost them.

On the immediate level as a minor party you should be making the most of the breaks that the position offers; no one seriously expects you to be in the government so don't play those costing games.

In the longer term - and if you are a radical alternative to the current set up - asking fundamental questions about current shortcomings is a must.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[gosub]

On the immediate level as a minor party you should be making the most of the breaks that the position offers; no one seriously expects you to be in the government so don't play those costing games.

In the longer term - and if you are a radical alternative to the current set up - asking fundamental questions about current shortcomings is a must.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

That I think is the position the Greens tried to play. Their standing in the polls and the likely hung parliament, changes the game. Its now what of your aspirations are unmoveable to help prop up a minority government?

 

[andysays]

On the immediate level as a minor party you should be making the most of the breaks that the position offers; no one seriously expects you to be in the government so don't play those costing games.

In the longer term - and if you are a radical alternative to the current set up - asking fundamental questions about current shortcomings is a must.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

This is the key - the Greens seem more interested in demonstrating that they are not "too radical" an alternative, which is a strategic dead end, even if it does get them a few extra percentage points at the next GE.

Those who make half a revolution dig their own grave...

 

[Idris2002]

 

[treelover]

I think you may actually be right.

On a different note I'd have thought that for the Greens, as for UKIP at the present time, the point would be to stress how the existing parties have cocked things up over such a sustained period and now have no new solutions to the problems they have helped to create; what is needed is a radical departure...let's be brave and hopeful.

You can then chuck it back at the interviewer that they are acting as a more or less privileged apologist for a status quo; a status quo which is demonstrably failing most people. In a nut shell tell Neil (or whoever) that his number crunching myopia has failed, so he should move on and ask some different questions; questions which actually address the problems people are facing.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Tbf, the material she had to work with was problematic: membership of ISIS ostensibly being allowed, even if it is more complex than that, she should have tried to move on to the basics, popular policies like rail nationalisation, etc.

 

[butchersapron]

What material? Who provided it?

 

[gosub]

Tbf, the material she had to work with was problematic: membership of ISIS ostensibly being allowed, even if it is more complex than that, she should have tried to move on to the basics, popular policies like rail nationalisation, etc.

Even rail nationalisation is problematic, with relation to the EU

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Tbf, the material she had to work with was problematic: membership of ISIS ostensibly being allowed, even if it is more complex than that, she should have tried to move on to the basics, popular policies like rail nationalisation, etc.

She should have said that outlawing membership of ISIS isn't the question; after all outlawing membership of the IRA didn't work. What works is addressing the reasons for ISIS (in terms of foreign policy) and centrally addressing the actual day to day concerns of people where they live. In other other words don't try and distract from from key issues (the mis-management of the economy) by offering non-solutions to relatively marginal challenges.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[killer b]

should've played a 4-4-2 formation with Lucas up front. Fucking amateurs.

 

[Pickman's model]

should've played a 4-4-2 formation with Lucas up front. Fucking amateurs.

yeh shouldn't have lucas is goal, not a safe pair of hands.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

should've played a 4-4-2 formation with Lucas up front. Fucking amateurs.

Almost - as a Brighton fan we did best against Arsenal yesterday when we attacked and when we defended in an 'uncompromising' fashion (i.e. not playing the game they wanted and are really really good at).

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[elbows]

What material? Who provided it?

Policy material, presumably decided at their party conferences.

If they want to ditch the radical policies they will have to continue on the path of making the party less democratic.

 

[chilango]

The general election campaign, and the Greens new found electoral confidence, has arrived in East Reading with a wham! My ward has a large student population, and correspondingly a large Lib Dem vote in 2010 and was a Lib Dem seat in the locals. Fortunately they’ve disappeared without a trace, no copies of Focus, no leaflets, No “Winning Here” placards. Nothing, they’ve slipped away silence. Even their former councillor’s twitter feed is resigned silence. Essentially saying no more to vanishing activists than “wake me up before you go”. Go back a few years and that vote probably helped Labour lose the constituency to the Tories. Now though the Labour Party in my local ward have ramped up their activity after the Lib Dems lost control of the ward through being careless. Whisper it though, the so-called “Green surge” is spreading into the ward from a neighbouring Green hold,Since about last Christmas the Greens seem to have realised that they can really make a push to take on labour in these wards and are trying to shake off their their po-faced lentil eating, sandal wearing image and are pushing themselves as a slightly more “normal” bunch of people dealing with more “normal issues” and a more relaxed take on personal sacrifice although they still aren't exactly lily to be caught drinking cocktails at the Purple Turtle (Reading’s very own take on Club Tropicana) or anything.

 

[Nylock]

Nice Wham! song references there

 

[Idris2002]

The general election campaign, and the Greens new found electoral confidence, has arrived in East Reading with a wham! My ward has a large student population, and correspondingly a large Lib Dem vote in 2010 and was a Lib Dem seat in the locals. Fortunately they’ve disappeared without a trace, no copies of Focus, no leaflets, No “Winning Here” placards. Nothing, they’ve slipped away silence. Even their former councillor’s twitter feed is resigned silence. Essentially saying no more to vanishing activists than “wake me up before you go”. Go back a few years and that vote probably helped Labour lose the constituency to the Tories. Now though the Labour Party in my local ward have ramped up their activity after the Lib Dems lost control of the ward through being careless. Whisper it though, the so-called “Green surge” is spreading into the ward from a neighbouring Green hold,Since about last Christmas the Greens seem to have realised that they can really make a push to take on labour in these wards and are trying to shake off their their po-faced lentil eating, sandal wearing image and are pushing themselves as a slightly more “normal” bunch of people dealing with more “normal issues” and a more relaxed take on personal sacrifice although they still aren't exactly lily to be caught drinking cocktails at the Purple Turtle (Reading’s very own take on Club Tropicana) or anything.

The "Purple Turtle" sounds like something an Australian would call his genitalia.

 

[andysays]

Nice Wham! song references there

disappointed that he didn't get "Young guns - go for it" in there somehow