Why the Green Party is shit
- Thread starter SpineyNorman
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
DUP pissed that it's only a 'seven-way' clusterfuck.
In Bristol NW?! Where?
SpineyNorman
Inappropriate content removed
#Iagreewithtarquin
In the first of a series of articles Anne Barr describes the life and character of one of Sheffield Green Party’s most respected supporters. Well into his 90s Herbert Rouse has been a valued supporter for over 10 years and has helped out on various campaigns in Sheffield. Anne is working on a series of portraits of Sheffield Green Party’s wide range of diverse, passionate and committed supporters from all walks of life.
by Anne Barr
I first met Herbert aka Eric Rouse when he appeared on the Green Party Nether Edge members and supporters list. He had moved from Broomhall to Waddington House on Edgedale Road. Acting on Eamonn Ward’s suggestion, I decided to go and visit him, and several visits later Herbert has become a good friend. Recently he has moved again, this time to a care home in Sharrow. He is in his 90s now and not very mobile, so really appreciates visitors. Herbert is a wonderful raconteur, with a brilliant memory for detail. He still has a sharp political mind, and I have learned a lot from him about the history of politics.
At 15 years of age, as a true Socialist, he joined The Labour Party. He was a very active supporter all his working life; he was a joiner, and, for many years, a shop steward. He bemoans the loss of the power of the unions under Thatcher. He also feels great anger towards Tony Blair, and often refers to his revocation of Clause 4, and to the Iraq war. The Blair regime caused him to drop his allegiance to Labour, and he started to support Green policies.
Herbert feels that the Greens are the only party representing the true values of democratic socialism. Herbert got to know about the Green Party through Jillian Creasy in Broomhall. He regularly attended events at the Broomhall Centre, where he met her on many occasions. He was always impressed by her dedication and work ethic, as demonstrated in her efforts to take up the issues of local residents. He started to contribute financially to the party and to deliver leaflets at election time.
As well as regaling me with political anecdotes, Herbert has taken me back in time by recounting how he swept his beloved wife, Joan (now sadly departed), off her feet during dance sessions at the City Hall just after the war. In fact, he’s still a bit of a ladies’ man, surrounded by them wherever he goes! I teasingly refer to them as his “harem”. He’s still applying his charm in his latest abode, but feels frustrated that the ladies don’t seem to want to take part in political discussions!!
In the war, Herbert proved to be a courageous and wily soldier, and is full of stories of those days, again remembered in intricate detail. He always looked out for his fellow soldiers, while seeking ways to outsmart “Auld Gerry”. Herbert has been affected by various illnesses in recent years, and suffers pain on a daily basis, but he is always sociable, cheerful and full of fun.
I always take him the latest Green Party newspapers, leaflets, newsletters, etc, as he loves to keep up with the progress of the party. He has become one of my favourite people to spend time with, and I find him truly inspirational.
http://central.sheffieldgreenparty....ait-of-a-green-party-supporter-herbert-rouse/
Not all Tarquins, a former joiner, labour party socialist, WW2 vet.
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SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
A lot of my erstwhile colleagues from the climate camp stuff seem to be backing the Greens. I'm not, personally. I wish the Greens well as the best of a bad bunch but I do worry about people who used to be involved in ground-level direct action throwing their weight behind a political party instead.
SikhWarrioR
And the Worms ate into his brain
I would agree but unless we want another 5 years of Red/Blue/Yellow/Purple neo-liberal conservative fuckfestery in the absence of a genuine left of center party with mass appeal the Greens are the best of a very bad choice
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
How is voting Green going to stop "another 5 years of Red/Blue/Yellow/Purple neo-liberal conservative fuckfestery"?
Leaving aside their own actions in Brighton and Leeds, they simply won't be able to form a government will they? And it's highly unlikely that they'll even be in a position to form a coalition. They are likely to lose the one seat they do have this parliament and probably won't get any others.
Leaving aside their own actions in Brighton and Leeds, they simply won't be able to form a government will they? And it's highly unlikely that they'll even be in a position to form a coalition. They are likely to lose the one seat they do have this parliament and probably won't get any others.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
There has to be some value in having a left-ish party having some momentum and associated media coverage surely, even if only to prevent the UKIP factor dragging the political centre even further rightwards? I don't have any illusions that the Greens are going to change the world, but in the absence of anything better, supporting them could have short term tactical value?
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Sure, I can recognise the logic of that position even if I don't agree with it. But that's a very different kettle of fish to saying that by voting Green you'll stop the formation of a neoliberal government (of whatever stripe) after the next election.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
concern for the environment is not a 'left' issue. It's a basic human issue yes, but its not what keeps people on the breadline awake at night
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
Oh come on, concern for the environment is not the Green Party's only policy. I share your scepticism that the Greens can effectively appeal to people on the breadline by the way. But they do have policies that are to the left of Labour and they are certainly being perceived as left wing, as that Telegraph hatchet job shows. There does seem to be some evidence that left-leaning types are in the ascendency in the GP rather than the deep greens. A surge of support for a party that at least claims to be anti-austerity, pro-public services, affordable housing, railway nationalisation etc must be positive in terms of the wider political climate, surely?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I just can't get past how they have acted in the seat they did win, its smiley faced recycle or else.
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
The thing is that it should be. Things like good and cheap public transport, clean and safe community spaces, affordable and decent quality housing are both "basic human issues" and environmental issues. But instead what happens all too often is that "environmental" issues become some sort of disconnected moral stance rather than something that is effecting people's everyday lives. That quote BA posted earlier in the week on the commiteriat thread illustrates the process perfectly.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I know they've been shit in Brighton. I suspect they might very well be shit if elected elsewhere. I don't think that's necessarily the point though, a 'green surge' at this moment is a good counterweight to UKIP and keeps some left wing ideas in the mainstream media.
If I was in Scotland I'd be supporting the SNP, even though I loathe Salmond and hate some of the shit they've done. Watched that Trump film the other day and am still seething. Anyway I haven't made my mind up re the Greens, I am just pondering if getting behind them is the best thing to do at this particular moment, absolutely without illusions...
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I stopped seeing electoral politics as worthwhile ages ago tbf, I follow it like a game, but in regards to m and mine, no. Politics is done to us not by us etc etc
none of them have any room to move either, not snp or green. It's the same old shit in a different package
none of them have any room to move either, not snp or green. It's the same old shit in a different package
If you want to vote to stop another Tory government then vote for the party best able to stop them in your constituency. There is no other choice.
(Obviously you may want to avoid voting for a party that might enable another Tory led coalition as well so that probably rules out Libdems and Greens and means its only worth voting Labour, SNP, or Plaid)
(Obviously you may want to avoid voting for a party that might enable another Tory led coalition as well so that probably rules out Libdems and Greens and means its only worth voting Labour, SNP, or Plaid)
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Tbf, greens seem pretty focused on the economy and being anti austerity, from what I see on Twitter (work feed so obviously follow all the local greens).
If I thought the pressure was there to force capital to accept this, I'd maybe vote green, but it isn't, or labour would have headed back that way.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
They had no choice but to be shit, local govt in the UK now has been so stripped of autonomy and power that it is nothing more than a rubber stamp for decisions made in Whitehall. It no longer matters who runs a local authority, it could be the IWCA or whoever, you either implement austerity or you are sacked. Local authorities no longer raise their own revenue - except via minor tweaks of the Council Tax (which is any event a regressive tax on the poor, so any revenue raised here is re-distributive to the rich), they are utterly dependent on central govt for their money. Even the money they get is now largely ringfenced so they get no choice over what they spend it on, and thanks to New Labour's "best practise" stuff, they don't even get any choice over how they spend it on the things they are not allowed to choose...it's utterly stitched up. And probably explains why so few bother turn out for local elections any more - it's a farcical exercise.
Which probably means it's a tactical mistake for outsider parties of the left to run for local govt, but if you don't do that it's almost impossible to build a vote to challenge at Parliamentary level (whether that would get you round the problem is another question).
The only parties that can coherently run a local council in the England now are those that support the whole neo-liberal agenda.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
“We wholeheartedly object to the ovens, but whilst the ovens are here we will endeavour to ensure that they are operated as efficiently and effectively as possible.”
newbie
undisambiguated
quite so. In almost all constituencies this notion of voting for is naive in the extreme. Vote against the greater evil, which is always the Tories, no matter how bad Labour is the Tories are worse.
What purpose, in the absence of any real power, does running for council serve? Refusing to implement austerity is a high risk strategy - you'd risk both power being removed by pickles and possibly rejection by the electorate.
But what's the point otherwise? What's the point in claiming to have principles if they're just going to be put aside when in power for the sake of... What? The opportunity to fine-tune the decline and destruction of your community? Fuck that.
But what's the point otherwise? What's the point in claiming to have principles if they're just going to be put aside when in power for the sake of... What? The opportunity to fine-tune the decline and destruction of your community? Fuck that.
Bernie Gunther
Fundamentalist Druid
If you live as I do in an ultra-safe nuLabour seat and have an MP like 'Mad Frankie' Field, then it makes sense to me at least to vote Green to put some small amount of leftward pressure on him.
It may not count for much, it may even be worthless, but if I have a vote, then I feel obliged to use it.
I'd agree though, that making it count for something one day is outside the scope of the neo-liberal version of democratic process and far more important.
It may not count for much, it may even be worthless, but if I have a vote, then I feel obliged to use it.
I'd agree though, that making it count for something one day is outside the scope of the neo-liberal version of democratic process and far more important.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I didn't mean to defend their choice to take power, just pointing out that there aren't even "tough choices" in local govt these days, there are no choices. You either implement neo-liberalism at the front line level or you get out of the game. Whether you'd get any political gains out of setting an illegal budget and getting sacked is another question I think parts of the Brighton Green Party look like they're starting to think this way - http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1174...endanger_livelihoods_and_could_cost_lives___/.
newbie
undisambiguated
in your constituency, as in mine (Chuka Umunna), the incumbent Labour is the greater evil, the Tories stand almost no chance. So voting against makes sense.
It makes sense in salving your concience maybe but assuming you mean voting Green or some other left it doesn't make any other sense
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