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Why the Green Party is shit

Many people don't give the Green Party any time of day and treat them like a smaller preachier version of the Labour Party. These people are not anti-environmentalists.

Meltingpot said:
Sorry, but maybe the post I've just made will make it clearer.
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What are the Hari issues?
 
TruXta said:
Astounding isn't it, that a thread called "Why the Green Party is shit" would contain negative sentiments about the GP. Meltingpot, why not start a thread about all the great things they (possibly) do?
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And you can't call it why the GP are great. You can only call it something neutral. And then only allow pro-green stuff. You don't half waffle on about free speech and why you love debating on stormfront, but a hint of criticism of the greens and we get this drivel.
 
Meltingpot said:
Sorry, but maybe the post I've just made will make it clearer.
Click to expand...

A bit. Ta.

On two points I'd agree with you.

One, SpineyNorman's "Bolivian Arse Wasp" dig. Not up to his usual standards IMO, but in fairness it's a throwaway jibe.

Two, yes it is a hatchet job. That's the point of thread. Like the Lib Dem one. It's not intended as a constructive critique. That the Green Party are now getting the same treatment as the Lib Dems speaks volumes about where they're headed.

But, to suggest that people who "care about environmental issues" shouldn't/wouldn't criticise the Green Party...seriously? Do you actually mean that?
 
butchersapron said:
I don't know why this keeps happening - i'm not on my phone and am just doing what i normally do.
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Fuck knows! It only started the other day wrt me watching Hara-kiri (the time before that it was me not paying attention).

Anyways, back to the Green Party being shit.

e2a - now it comes up? i am officially confuzzled.
 
TruXta said:
Fuck knows! It only started the other day wrt me watching Hara-kiri (the time before that it was me not paying attention).

Anyways, back to the Green Party being shit.
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(Nah, you had this problem before that and i had to explain i was just doing normal stuff)
 
sihhi said:
Rude. What a nonsense. Paul Ehrlich is still a patron of Britain's Population Matters, formerly Optimum Population Trust, despite him getting every single one of his predictions wrong again and again. Only a clown would see him as a prophet his Jewishness has nothing to do with it.
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Ehrlich was raising concerns about global population before almost anyone else was. And population IS an issue - it governs how many people a polity has to cater for, as well as how much land and water they're going to need. I know it's considered an ugly issue because of the nature of some of the efforts which have been made about it in the past, but that doesn't mean it can be ducked.

Trying to feed and provide water etc. for seven billion people is a VERY serious challenge, let alone for the nine and a half billion we're supposed to have within a matter of a few decades (I think I heard 2050 on the radio). And that's even before you factor in the ever rising costs of energy and other essential raw materials.
 
Meltingpot said:
I have no problem with criticism which is fair and balanced and takes what the party stands for into account. This thread is more than criticism - it's a hatchet job (not an exaggeration) - An attempt to dig up all the dirt you can about a party without any attempt at balance or sense of what they stand for.
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Why do want spurious 'balance' for pro-EU capitalist parties? :confused:

The Greens have a lot of enemies in both politics and industry (not to mention right wing journalists like James Delingpole). That's why I think people who criticise the Party for more noble reasons should take pains in their posts to distinguish themselves from those enemies.
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Similar nonsense on this thread below when Green councillor and MP hopeful Matt Sellwood finally left u75?

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-coalition-with-yellow-tories-lib-dems.250807

Finding it, reminded of this nugget - the Green Party leader in Norfolk going Tory.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-16251655

What kind of political education does the Party provide that its leaders can just jump ship? Or rather what does it say about the type of people placed as candidates by the Green Party into being group leaders, when other more honest environmentalists exist within its party?
(Same criticism as for RESPECT ( the S for Socialism, C for Communities and T for Trade Unionism) councillors switching straight to Tories and Labour.)
 
Meltingpot said:
Ehrlich was raising concerns about global population before almost anyone else was. And population IS an issue - it governs how many people a polity has to cater for, as well as how much land and water they're going to need. I know it's considered an ugly issue because of the nature of some of the efforts which have been made about it in the past, but that doesn't mean it can be ducked.

Trying to feed and provide water etc. for seven billion people is a VERY serious challenge, let alone for the nine and a half billion we're supposed to have within a matter of a few decades (I think I heard 2050 on the radio). And that's even before you factor in the ever rising costs of energy and other essential raw materials.
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Note the assumption that global population is a problem. To disagree would be a smear and to dismiss green issues i suppose. You've fucked this up even worse than hari. And this time you've done it in such a way as to smear every other poster on the thread.
 
Meltingpot said:
Ehrlich was raising concerns about global population before almost anyone else was.
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1. He wasn't. Thomas Malthus was centuries ahead of him.

2. He was doing so by over-egging the pudding with wild nonsense of mass food shortages
in the 1980s in the West, (not just class-based starvation/poor nutrition).
Ever think that maybe your liberal Green prophets are the reason journalists treat environmentalist ideas with scepticism?
 
sihhi said:
Why do want spurious 'balance' for pro-EU capitalist parties? :confused:
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Because the issues matter, and without the Green Party putting pressure on the other parties in the EU none of those other parties would pay as much attention to them, given the other problems Europe now faces.

The Greens in the UK did great (by their standards) in 1989 before the Europe-wide recession kicked in post-German reunification, picking up 15% of the vote, and then fell back as people had more immediate concerns to worry about. I think (and fear) the same could happen again.
 
sihhi said:
1. He wasn't. Thomas Malthus was centuries ahead of him.

2. He was doing so by over-egging the pudding with wild nonsense of mass food shortages
in the 1980s in the West, (not just class-based starvation/poor nutrition).
Ever think that maybe your liberal Green prophets are the reason journalists treat environmentalist ideas with scepticism?
Click to expand...


There's an Arthur C. Clarke novel which tries to chill the reader's blood by saying that "by the 1990s, even Europe had meatless days". Didn't turn out like that for some reason.

And have you ever tried reading Malthus? It's pretty thin stuff - largely a provincial twat venting his spleen at the essential awfulness (as he sees it) of the lower orders.
 
sihhi said:
1. He wasn't. Thomas Malthus was centuries ahead of him.
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I said "almost anyone", but you're right; I wasn't thinking of Malthus when I posted that.

sihhi said:
2. He was doing so by over-egging the pudding with wild nonsense of mass food shortages in the 1980s in the West, (not just class-based starvation/poor nutrition). Ever think that maybe your liberal Green prophets are the reason journalists treat environmentalist ideas with scepticism?
Click to expand...

Our modern intensive agriculture relies heavily on oil, and cheap oil at that. Many of us believe the era of cheap oil is over (though that's a separate issue from Green politics, it's a more immediately pressing one). Take a look at James Kunstler's "The Long Emergency" for more on this.
 
chilango said:
I'm still awaiting clarification about whether I "care about environmental issues" or not. ;)
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But if you don't say it, how am I supposed to know? There's always been a section of the left which is resolutely un-green and thinks that unchecked industrialisation is the way to raise the standards of living of working people, though I thought their numbers had declined of late.
 
Meltingpot said:
Because the issues matter, and without the Green Party putting pressure on the other parties in the EU none of those other parties would pay as much attention to them, given the other problems Europe now faces.
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Yes, had the Greens in the EU not stood behind NATO bombing Serbia, it's true that the other parties from elsewhere would not have supported it as much.
 
Meltingpot said:
But if you don't say it, how am I supposed to know? There's always been a section of the left which is resolutely un-green and thinks that unchecked industrialisation is the way to raise the standards of living of working people, though I thought their numbers had declined of late.
Click to expand...

Much better to assume that it's the case by people not talking about it and criticising the green party for its actions. That's not a smear in any way.
 
sihhi said:
Many people don't give the Green Party any time of day and treat them like a smaller preachier version of the Labour Party. These people are not anti-environmentalists.

What are the Hari issues?
Click to expand...

OK, but I need a break for a mug of tea. Two of them;

1 / Does Hari's dishonesty (he's admitted that he played fast and loose with the truth when interviewing people) negate the good journalism he's done elsewhere, for example in reporting from the Congo and revealing that the war was largely driven by the wish to control sources of that material which goes into mobile phones (the name of which escapes me at the moment)?

2 / More general, and a different thread; are ad homs ever acceptable on Urban? I posted a thread a while back based on a post of Johann Hari's, and got one reply to the effect that "Hari's s a tosser", and not even looking at what he'd said.
 
Meltingpot said:
But if you don't say it, how am I supposed to know? There's always been a section of the left which is resolutely un-green and thinks that unchecked industrialisation is the way to raise the standards of living of working people, though I thought their numbers had declined of late.
Click to expand...

You're assuming I'm of "the left" though? On what grounds?
 
Wow.

Meltingpot said:
I've rarely been so angry reading a thread on here, or anywhere else, as I have reading this.
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Do you stand by this?


A guy who, apart from many other scandals he's reported on over the years, has been out to the Congo reporting on the war fought over that material they put in mobile 'phones, which everyone else wants to try and forget about?

What have you, any of you, done with your lives to put against that?

Kick him around? A guy who's at least honest about the mistake he made in supporting the Iraq war?

Just because Hari isn't perfect, and probably he isn't, you think you all have the right to sit on your asses typing at a keyboard throwing shit at him. Fine - then do something yourself in this far from perfect world you live in to show him, and the rest of us, how to stick it to The Boss and really make him go back to Mummy and cry. With any luck you can link to it back here.

It's all so easy on an Internet board, isn't it?

Listen you self-righteous fuckers;

Sometimes you have to settle for what you can get. And Hari's better than most journalists out there.
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Haris is apt on this thread though Caroline Lucas is brilliant:
https://twitter.com/johannhari101/status/337555658947821568

The brilliant @CarolineLucas has launched petition for gvnt to conduct study of effects of drug laws http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/45969 Who cld object?
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Many object to demands for the government studying their own laws, because they will only produce improvements to their governing.
 
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