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Why do some feminists hate transgender people?

many of us would argue we never had male privilege in the first place. I was never plugged into the patriarchy as I never lived up to accepted model of being male, never identified as male and always felt lost between genders.

Why on earth are genders so important? :( It seems to be getting worse as well with all the pink and blue toys marketed to little girls and boys that i dont remember when i was a kid, must be hell if you already feel like your body/brain already dont match up. :( Not that that is trans peoples fault (quite the opposite tbh)
 
Even in a communist society where everyone had the same life chances, access to wealth etc etc and gender differences were eliminated completely, you would still get people wanting to change their sex.
Gosh, wouldn't this be interesting though to see how it would influence things? Whether the same amount of individuals would want to change their sex, fewer, or more? I mean, that would really tease out the essentialist/social constructionist strands. Just as I can see how it would lead to fewer people wanting to transition, I can also definitely see how in a less gendered world more people would want to change their sex because of the taboos being lesser.

Shame computer modeling can't do human psychology ;)
 
Gosh, wouldn't this be interesting though to see how it would influence things? Whether the same amount of individuals would want to change their sex, fewer, or more? I mean, that would really tease out the essentialist/social constructionist strands. Just as I can see how it would lead to fewer people wanting to transition, I can also definitely see how in a less gendered world more people would want to change their sex because of the taboos being lesser.

Shame computer modeling can't do human psychology ;)

Lets introduce communism and find out.
 
Why on earth are genders so important? :( It seems to be getting worse as well with all the pink and blue toys marketed to little girls and boys that i dont remember when i was a kid, must be hell if you already feel like your body/brain already dont match up. :( Not that that is trans peoples fault (quite the opposite tbh)
They clearly are important to most of us, however much we may hate the proscribed roles we're often forced to live up to (and i certainly am not a stereotypically feminine woman) I just know I'm female, and to be able to espress that internal feeling means i get treated as such. But that doesn't necessarily mean i buy into all the gender baggage women get lumbered with, I like having choice.
 
Gosh, wouldn't this be interesting though to see how it would influence things? Whether the same amount of individuals would want to change their sex, fewer, or more? I mean, that would really tease out the essentialist/social constructionist strands. Just as I can see how it would lead to fewer people wanting to transition, I can also definitely see how in a less gendered world more people would want to change their sex because of the taboos being lesser.

Shame computer modeling can't do human psychology ;)
i don't think people transition for ideological reasons. It's too bloody hard for that! My own view is that numbers would not change.
 
i don't think people transition for ideological reasons. It's too bloody hard for that! My own view is that numbers would not change.
Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that people would transition for ideological reasons. Just that given the debates (both on and outside of this thread) about whether gender norms do influence gender identity both for cis and trans individuals, it would obviously clear all that up. But obviously it's never going to happen (or at least not until a long way into the future) so it's really just an aside.
 
Radical feminists are a tiny minority of cis-women though. It is strange that trans activists spend so much effort trying to force their way into their 'women only' spaces.

The older feminists I've spoken to about this aren't so much opposed to the integration of long term trans-women i.e people who have lived as women for a long period of time into the cis-female community but do find the prospect of being shouted down by 20 somethings who have announced that they are women in the last six months and have done little to unpack their own male privilege (i.e the assumption that their's should be the loudest voice in the room) quite galling.

Strangely in my experience the politics of insisting that gender boundaries are fluid and that there should be no restriction on an individuals right to assert their gender identity often seem to go hand in hand with ideas around ethnicity and culture that are positively hidebound.
 
Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that people would transition for ideological reasons. Just that given the debates (both on and outside of this thread) about whether gender norms do influence gender identity both for cis and trans individuals, it would obviously clear all that up. But obviously it's never going to happen (or at least not until a long way into the future) so it's really just an aside.
i don't think it would clear anything up. How we identify is so fundamental i don't think ideas of gender norms impact on self identity at all.
 
It is strange that trans activists spend so much effort trying to force their way into their 'women only' spaces.
They don't - if anything we're intimidated away from women only spaces. It's taken me 18 months of being a woman to begin to feel i am able to and have any need to enter women only spaces. But as my friends and colleagues tell me, I'm a woman and I have every right to be there.
 
Offering an opinion based on conversations I've had - regurgitating if you like - but of digested matter.

I was just interested in your use of the word 'forcing' that was all.

In relation to the article, I never really did see the point of trans people counter protesting Michfest, or Rad Fem conferences tbh, however much I might disagree with them.
 
And trans critical discourse came about in the second wave of feminism - I don't think the battle over trans women and 'women only spaces' really gained traction until the 90s afaik. Possibly around the same time as trans people started to be more visible, vocal and also began to organise.
 
I was just interested in your use of the word 'forcing' that was all.

In relation to the article, I never really did see the point of trans people counter protesting Michfest, or Rad Fem conferences tbh, however much I might disagree with them.
most of us are just trying to live our lives. I enter women only spaces every day now - when i want to take a piss. I think every space that defines itself as women only should not exclude trans women, or we will quickly find ourselves being excluded more and more. And its not as if most cis women want to exclude us, because they clearly don't. It's a principle that I would fight for if it impinged on my life at all - though i'm not an activist - i support those who help to fight for my rights.
 
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