Why do people from privileged class backgrounds often misidentify their origins as working class?

[Pickman's model]

You're right, it's complex, but one of the things I'm trying to do is talk about how we can't use the same class categories as a hundred and fifty years ago (pretty sure too that Marx would be outraged at the idea that we could). The inability to talk about these new more conflicted or ambiguous class positions in any nuanced way results not only in people (on this thread for example) trying to simplify things by referring constantly to culture (because the cultural rifts in British society are much simpler than the crazy paving of structural class rifts), but also the left's inability to grasp their constant defeat at the hands of a Tory voting bloc that has been kept together by the simple expedient of protecting pensions and house prices.

I could talk about other tensions too. In theory the working class of the UK might have the same interests as the Chinese working class, but that is on such an abstract level as to mean almost nothing. In fact we benefit from low wages in China. Our working class live in China, to a large extent, and 'our' (British) working class lifestyles are subsidised by their immiseration. This is not to blame anyone for anything, but we need to admit that there is no existing (or planned, to my knowledge) level of international organising by which the elevation of Britain's working class in China and the elevation of the working class in Britain can be tied together.

Our working class live in Britain. The term British working class alludes to the complex of national and social tensions around the working class in this country. The Chinese working class has its own complex of tensions, its own separate cultures. If you want to go down this avenue then British working classes of the past live in the former colonies, be they descendants of slaves or whatnot. You accentuate certain aspects of class while understating or omitting the vital interplay between the working class in this country and the state/ruling class. Yeh your post sounds good but it is a victory for style over substance

 

[Artaxerxes]

Someone on here has ratted to The Guardian

‘We’re not all terrible’: the landlords who keep rents low

Tales of misery for tenants hit the headlines but there are property owners who go the extra mile

www.theguardian.com

"I own 14 properties and that's ok, I even fix things when they break."

Listen to yourself you fuck, earn an actual living

 

[The39thStep]

"I own 14 properties and that's ok, I even fix things when they break."

Listen to yourself you fuck, earn an actual living

Richard Blanco – Property Expert

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

I thought it was quite an interesting paper though not particularly conclusive. As well as the parts mentioned above was some stuff about perceptions of class as a historical, generational thing, as well as connection to perceived regional prejudices. (ETA: To be fair I don't know how much of that would already be familiar to anyone who's studied the sociology of this.)

I blame the Americans. In America, you are middle class no matter what your income. If you make $20K a year or $300K a year, you will list yourself as middle class. It's a weird way of pretending that class-lines do not matter. Would you like a little denial with a side of economic insecurity?

 

[danski]

We are not other. We are not fucking bacteria in a petri dish to be observed and commented on.

We are just people trying to get by.

 

[Ming]

Thought of a place to put this comment.

Just weird really.

life history

1. Private prep school, British bulldogs, Latin, elocution,etc

2. Selective education (passed to Birkenhead and Wellington schools and the local grammar).

3. Universities.

4. Got into hard drugs .

5. Ended up in Vancouver.

 

[Tanya1982]

Thought of a place to put this comment.

Just weird really.

life history

1. Private prep school, British bulldogs, Latin, elocution,etc

2. Selective education (passed to Birkenhead and Wellington schools and the local grammar).

3. Universities.

4. Got into hard drugs .

5. Ended up in Vancouver.

I don’t know what class I fall into, so I don’t worry about it. I’ve thought about it, but I’ve never worried about it. I’m just me. You might be similar.

 

[mojo pixy]

I don’t know what class I fall into, so I don’t worry about it. I’ve thought about it, but I’ve never worried about it. I’m just me. You might be similar.

You don't need to 'know what class you fall into' (viz identity), you still have one anyway (viz socio-economics).

 

[Tanya1982]

You don't need to 'know what class you fall into' (viz identity), you still have one anyway (viz socio-economics).

I know that. I just don’t worry about it or feel secure or insecure about it. I’m indifferent to it.

 

[mojo pixy]

I know that. I just don’t worry about it or feel secure or insecure about it. I’m indifferent to it.

That's lovely for you, but that's not what this thread is about really.

 

[Tanya1982]

That's lovely for you, but that's not what this thread is about really.

I know. I was responding to a particular poster with what was meant to be kindness towards him, as he laid out his story with what seemed like he wasn’t sure where he fitted. What’s your point, apart from being dismissively rude for no real reason?

 

[mojo pixy]

I know. I was responding to a particular poster with what was meant to be kindness towards him. What’s your point?

That feelings have nothing to do with class as explored in this thread.

You can feel class is irrelevant, not worry about it or whatever, but centering that misses the point. Class is not about feelings, that's exactly what this whole discussion is about.

 

[Tanya1982]

I blame the Americans. In America, you are middle class no matter what your income. If you make $20K a year or $300K a year, you will list yourself as middle class. It's a weird way of pretending that class-lines do not matter. Would you like a little denial with a side of economic insecurity?

I’m not sure the context is similar.

I would say that many middle class people claim to be working class for the same reason that suburban or exurban kids identify with the nearest big city instead - where they actually come from is just not considered very cool.

There’s an inverse snobbery too, which can’t be discounted. And the more mixed a persons background is, the less likely the are to comfortably fit into any social class entirely - particularly in Europe, where so much about class rests on heritage rather than the money you make - which is problematic for those who like to place others in neat boxes.

I do think this might be one area where what happens in the USA actually doesn’t and can’t translate across the Atlantic very much.

 

[Tanya1982]

That feelings have nothing to do with class as explored in this thread.

You can feel class is irrelevant, not worry about it or whatever, but centering that misses the point. Class is not about feelings, that's exactly what this whole discussion is about.

Christ, then tell the person I was trying to be nice to instead of jumping all over me. Fucking hell. I haven’t missed any point - don’t be so bloody patronising.

I actually didn’t say class was irrelevant. I said I was indifferent to it in the particular case of myself, and I said that to be of what I hoped might be help to someone who seemed slightly puzzled about what their own background made them. I didn’t say class itself was ’irrelevant’.

First you castigate me for trying to offer a kind word of support to someone, and then you come back to correct me on a point I didn’t even make!

 

[mojo pixy]

Christ, then tell the person I was trying to be nice to instead of jumping all over me. Fucking hell. I haven’t missed any point - don’t be so bloody patronising.

I think I'll do what I want ta.

Read the thread

 

[Pickman's model]

Christ, then tell the person I was trying to be nice to instead of jumping all over me. Fucking hell. I haven’t missed any point - don’t be so bloody patronising.

yeh but what you were saying is 'i don't know what class i am and i don't care' whereas they were saying 'i know where i started out but fuck knows now'. sure you were trying to be nice but you've made something of a bollix of it on anyone's terms

 

[Tanya1982]

I think I'll do what I want ta.

Read the thread

Yeah, do you. Just try to make it actually logical if you’re going to aim it at me.

I’ll read what I want. If that’s just one post that I then respond to in a specific way, that’s what I’ll do.

Is Pickman’s Model always online, with some kind of active alert? Regardless of the subject, the hour of day, there he is, frantically liking any posts that appear to be contrary to my own, just so I’m continually (if dimly) aware of him as I scroll through. It’s all I ever see of him. Weird. No class. Still, everyone needs a hobby.

 

[mojo pixy]

Yeah, do you. Just try to make it actually logical if you’re going to aim it at me.

My posts in this little exchange have been both logical and on topic. You're just being rude and snide now**, which seems to be something of an MO, so I'll let you get on with it. I'm not much for having the last word anyway, I've said all I need to on this derail.

** as well as an edit machine lol

 

[Tanya1982]

Thought of a place to put this comment.

Just weird really.

life history

1. Private prep school, British bulldogs, Latin, elocution,etc

2. Selective education (passed to Birkenhead and Wellington schools and the local grammar).

3. Universities.

4. Got into hard drugs .

5. Ended up in Vancouver.

I’ll tell you one thing Ming - this is the last time I’ll put my neck above the parapet for you!

No good deed goes unpunished.

 

[Tanya1982]

My posts in this little exchange have been both logical and on topic. You're just being rude and snide now**, which seems to be something of an MO, so I'll let you get on with it. I'm not much for having the last word anyway, I've said all I need to on this derail.

** as well as an edit machine lol

Mad projection.

And there’s Wolfshead too now.

This has been a total waste of time and energy.

 

[Pickman's model]

Is Pickman’s Model always online, with some kind of active alert?

no

 

[Sue]

I know that. I just don’t worry about it or feel secure or insecure about it. I’m indifferent to it.

It's easy to be indifferent to class when it's not negatively affecting your life.

 

[Serge Forward]

People may be indifferent to class, but it is the development of our own class awareness and what, as a class, we must become that is probably the most crucial thing if we ever want to see a world better than the current barbaric and planet destroying shithole.

 

[danny la rouge]

People may be indifferent to class, but it is the development of our own class awareness and what, as a class, we must become that is probably the most crucial thing if we ever want to see a world better than the current barbaric and planet destroying shithole.

Exactly. So often people on these boards completely misunderstand what class means to those of us with a class politics, as Tanya has done here, especially this post.

 

[Tanya1982]

Exactly. So often people on these boards completely misunderstand what class means to those of us with a class politics, as Tanya has done here, especially this post.

I didn’t misunderstand anything Danny. I’m not looking for an argument. I was trying to be nice to someone.

 

[Pickman's model]

I didn’t misunderstand anything Danny. I’m not looking for an argument. I was trying to be nice to someone.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions

 

[danny la rouge]

I didn’t misunderstand anything Danny. I’m not looking for an argument. I was trying to be nice to someone.

I’m not looking for an argument either, I’m just saying the things you say in that post show your understanding of the concept class is different to mine. That’s simply a fact.

 

[Tanya1982]

I’m not looking for an argument either, I’m just saying the things you say in that post show your understanding of the concept class is different to mine. That’s simply a fact.

Fine.

 

[Sue]

I didn’t misunderstand anything Danny. I’m not looking for an argument. I was trying to be nice to someone.

Tanya1982, in the Politics forum, it's all about discussion of Politics, not about being nice. Debate tends to be more robust here than some of the other bits of the boards.

 

[Tanya1982]

Tanya1982, in the Politics forum, it's all about discussion of Politics, not about being nice. Debate tends to be more robust here than some of the other bits of the boards.

Robust debate is fine, and enjoyable. That’s not this. But I’m not looking for an argument, despite the accusation that I am (which isn’t robust debate, it’s a personal dismissal).