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Why do people from privileged class backgrounds often misidentify their origins as working class?

I thought it was quite an interesting paper though not particularly conclusive. As well as the parts mentioned above was some stuff about perceptions of class as a historical, generational thing, as well as connection to perceived regional prejudices. (ETA: To be fair I don't know how much of that would already be familiar to anyone who's studied the sociology of this.)
 
If I see something green and sloppy, and assume it's mushy peas rather than guacamole, does that make me working class?
someone i used to be acquainted with spent some years in prison in india in the 1990s for smuggling cannabis and he told me that while inside he discovered that shit can be all sorts of colours. so now if i found something green and sloppy, i would be careful before declaring it definitely safe or indeed desirable to eat
 
Tricky though innit, it's a spectrum I guess. As a kid I had middle class grandparents which meant good Christmas presents and a holiday with them every year but I was often on free dinners, school uniform vouchers, lived on a council estate in a poor town. Now I suppose I'm a professional of sorts, more than ten grand under the average wage but with soft hands and a fair bit of autonomy. Live in a nice enough modest street in an industrial port town. I don't worry about money (not that I did when I was on the dole in the 90s tbf).

I'd call myself working class. Mrs SI would say we're middle class.
 
As TopCat says its mostly a divide-and-rule strategy, perhaps best epitomized "right to buy" and the absurdly aggressive anti-benefits (anti-people-who-receive-state-benefits) media campaign over decades
What, the paper? Really?
Have you read it?
 
We would therefore argue that these intergenerational understandings of class origin should also be read as having a performative dimension; as deflecting attention away from the structural privilege these individuals enjoy, both in their own eyes but also among those they communicate their ‘origin story’ to in everyday life. At the same time, by framing their life as an upward struggle ‘against the odds’, these interviewees misrepresent their subsequent life outcomes as more worthy, more deserving and more meritorious.

This conclusion is about the motivation(s) of folk who pretend to be WC; seems reasonable to me.
 
What a surprise that not everyone can agree on a single definition of class and that some people claim that they're in one class whilst other people claim that they're mistaken. :eek:
 
Still trying to work out what definitions they're using - they say "We draw here on the National Statistics Socio-Economic Classification (NS-SEC), where Classes 1 and 2 denote professional and managerial occupations and Classes 6 and 7 working-class occupations." You might notice that this scheme seems to have an extra 3 classes in between the "middle class" and "working class" groupings, which they treat as "intermediate occupations".
These are positions in clerical, sales, service and intermediate technical occupations that do not involve general planning or supervisory powers. Positions in this group are intermediate in terms of employment regulation in that they combine elements of both the service relationship and the labour contract.

Although positions in L7 have some features of the service relationship, they do not usually involve any exercise of authority (other than in applying standardised rules and procedures where discretion is minimal) and are subject to detailed bureaucratic regulation.
Again, just to stress, this is a group that they're defining as separate, outside of the working class. I think the "divide-and-rule bollocks" shoe seems to fit pretty well here.
 
If I see something green and sloppy, and assume it's mushy peas rather than guacamole, does that make me working class?

images

stronger glasses needed
 
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My understanding of elide is basically to omit; in the context that they're using the word I think they probably mean evade.

As usual always internet search first... so today I've learnt that elide as well as meaning skipping sounds in speech can also mean

verb
If you elide something, especially a distinction, you leave it out or ignore it.
[formal]
These habits of thinking elide the difference between what is common and what is normal.
 
I'm assuming that the disparity between self identity and some tedious creature going through a list of jobs is not unrelated to the the concept that class identity is a great deal more complex than employment type.

So, for me, I would absolutely say that I'm middle class, but with working class roots - certainly my grandparents were skilled working class, and my parents started their working lives in skilled working class jobs - but if my children ended up doing exactly the same jobs as us I think it would be difficult to say they had working class roots, simply because their experiences and the experiences of the people around them are pretty much entirely middle class..

I also think that 'middle class' also carries a certain stigma of 'effetness' and 'softness', and that these are not characteristics that people either wish to see in themselves or wish others to perceive in them.
 
I've just had a quick read of the paper. The authors are quite obviously not using a Marxist lens on class, and neither are their subjects. So you do end up with a negotiable and contestable notion of class that tries to take elements of economic position and cultural identity and construct a "class" out of that.

Interesting paper though, it tackles, yet is shaped by, the mythology of meritocracy and social mobility that such fuzzy definitions of class enables.
 
I've just had a quick read of the paper. The authors are quite obviously not using a Marxist lens on class, and neither are their subjects. So you do end up with a negotiable and contestable notion of class that tries to take elements of economic position and cultural identity and construct a "class" out of that.

Interesting paper though, it tackles, yet is shaped by, the mythology of meritocracy and social mobility that such fuzzy definitions of class enables.

Easier to read if you mentally substitute "consumer status" for "class".
 
The author of the Graun article is Friedman and it links to the article in the OP, but it also links to your one with the 'working class' link.
Yep, and the actual LSE study itself links to that study prominently at the end of the second paragraph or so: "For example, the latest available data – the 2016 British Social Attitudes Survey – shows that 47% of those in ‘middle-class’ professional and managerial occupations identify as working class (Evans and Mellon, 2016)." So, although they're not the same bit of research, one cites the other, and both seem to share the same underlying framework - only 25% of the population is working class, and people in "clerical, sales, service and intermediate technical occupations that do not involve general planning or supervisory powers" that "do not usually involve any exercise of authority (other than in applying standardised rules and procedures where discretion is minimal) and are subject to detailed bureaucratic regulation" are a separate grouping outside of the w/c.
 
Growing up in a north-west ex-mining/steel town and moving to London, I've yet to see a consistent definition of exactly what constitutes one's class. There seem to be big differences between how class is perceived in "t'north" versus the south, and I suspect the definitions there are have become even more ill-defined as the UK has become ever more "post-industrial" and people who come from historically working-class families find themselves in more stereotypically middle-class roles. As such I think the perception of class is incredibly mutable depending on where, when and how you grew up.

Little doubt about me I guess - I come from a long line of middle-class families (well, one branch of it started out working class until about a hundred years ago) doing primarily academic or clerical activities. The working class of my youth were people whose parents were all involved in the mines, mills or factories. Individual income disparity between my parents' professions and the industrial jobs wasn't huge (although both of my parents worked for the state their entire adult lives whereas most other families were private sector single-earner + housewife). I suspect if I'd grown up in a different environment I might have a very different perception though.

When I came to London for uni, I was frankly astonished to discover a lot of people in the south considering my families position as working class, as their definition of middle class seemed to be like that of Hugh Grant in Four Weddings (something that's distinctly upper class in my book). I did wonder if there was some sort of self-shaming going on there, wanting to seem less posh that they were. I remember attending a house party at the gaff of someone who seemed as middle-class as me whilst their parents were away only to be shocked to discover it was a 12-bedroom pile complete with library and stables, not the four-bedroom semi I was expecting; if he was slumming it, he did a good job of disguising it. But there were also people far less rich than he was who openly sneered at me ("you really are frightfully common!") for having the audacity to turn up at uni after having only been to a comprehensive and a sixth-form.

This experience has been echoed through much of my time darn sarf; a year or two ago there was a surreal BBC doco called "How the middle-class ruined britain" where stereotypical middle-class events were scoffing chateaubriand and top-drawer wine in black tie and ya-ya-ing on about Cowes week, things that seemed distinctly posh/upper-class to what I might call my northern sensibilities.

Attempting to swerve vaguely back on topic: I think a lot of people from working class stock see themselves as more middle class since they're no longer working down the mines or in a factory like their forefathers; a lot of upper class people don't see themselves as being rich enough to have more than one yacht so see themselves as middle class. Income inequality seems massively larger between richest and poorest in the south than it does oop norf, but that frequently doesn't seem to correlate with people's sense of class.

As such, I think the various class labels are largely so subjective as to be mostly useless and frequently used to stifle or railroad discussion about ever-rampant income disparity. Perception of it seems different all over the place; it's a much more complex question of self-image vs. income than the classic bowler/fedora/flat cap sketch would have you believe. I think more important than simple divides of class is the attitude people take towards those they see as above/below them, but that's an even more incomprehensible discussion point.
 
I've just had a quick read of the paper. The authors are quite obviously not using a Marxist lens on class, and neither are their subjects. So you do end up with a negotiable and contestable notion of class that tries to take elements of economic position and cultural identity and construct a "class" out of that.

Interesting paper though, it tackles, yet is shaped by, the mythology of meritocracy and social mobility that such fuzzy definitions of class enables.
Yes, it felt very much like every thread on Urban about class. They claimed to know what it was, but actually slid around between different ways of defining class, and got confused about the difference between economic and cultural identity factors.

That said, I’m not saying that cultural identity is irrelevant, just that I’d see it more of an indicator rather than being class itself. Class, for me, is a relationship with ownership, capital.

There were some interesting anecdotes. I liked the bit about a respondent having gone to a not very good, and inexpensive private school. That was hilarious.

The idea of an “intergeneration self” was intriguing. I think this is a common way of seeing the world. But my dad having been a forestry worker and (later) a taxi driver does not make me either of those. But it does reflect on my upbringing.

A confused but not uninteresting piece.
 
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