Why Did Darwinism Emerge?

[8ball]

Apparently they've found some residual parthenogenesis in a marsupial :-

http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=1424724

Broken parthenogenesis but v. interesting.

The comedy explanation from the creationists should be fun, too.

 

[gentlegreen]

I'd forgotten about people born with ambiguous sexual characteristics - perhaps male nipples are a kind of error that happened millions of years ago but didn't cause any disadvantages - though why they persisted - perhaps genetically linked to something else "feminine" ?

 

[Crispy]

I'd forgotten about people born with ambiguous sexual characteristics - perhaps male nipples are a kind of error that happened millions of years ago but didn't cause any disadvantages - though why they persisted - perhaps genetically linked to something else "feminine" ?

It's quite simple - male nipples confer no reproductive disadvantage. Female nipples confer a great reproductive advantage. The evolution of female nipples also caused the appearance of male nipples, purely by the chance way that the developmental biology evolved. The existence of nipples in both genders is advantageous so long as it is advantageous in at least one gender.

There are plenty of other physical characteristics that exist purely because the confer no evolutionary disadvantage. Ear lobes. Toe hair.

 

[8ball]

There are plenty of other physical characteristics that exist purely because the confer no evolutionary disadvantage. Ear lobes. Toe hair.

That little niccitating membrane remnant in the corner of your eye.

You'd think the appendix would be taking the hint to fuck off by now, though.

 

[bi0boy]

You'd think the appendix would be taking the hint to fuck off by now, though.

It's probably useful for re-seeding your gut with friendly bacteria.

 

[8ball]

It's probably useful for re-seeding your gut with friendly bacteria.

Do you know of any evidence for that?

 

[DotCommunist]

It's probably useful for re-seeding your gut with friendly bacteria.

well we've invented yakult so it is now proper useless

 

[bi0boy]

Do you know of any evidence for that?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002251930700416X

 

[8ball]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002251930700416X

That's not evidence, just speculation. Judging by the bit of the article I can see, anyway.

 

[bi0boy]

That's not evidence, just speculation.

Based on what?

 

[8ball]

Based on what?

There's no evidence for an immune function mentioned in that first page. Just reference to some structural elements and a bit of 'adaptive storytelling'. It's fine as speculation goes, and I accept it as evidence that some scientists think the appendix has or (had until very recently in evolutionary time - one of the references suggests that may be where the paper is headed) some kind of immunoligical function.

There's nothing here to say the appendix actually has any immunological function, though. Just an extended pondering that it 'sort of looks like it might'.

Let me know if you think I'm missing something important, though.

 

[bi0boy]

There's nothing here to say the appendix actually has any immunological function, though. Just an extended pondering that it 'sort of looks like it might'.

Certainly enough to suggest that there may be evolutionary reasons as to why the appendix might not "be taking the hint to fuck off by now".

 

[8ball]

Certainly enough to suggest that there may be evolutionary reasons as to why the appendix might not "be taking the hint to fuck off by now".

I was asking for 'evidence', rather than a 'suggestion', though. This paper is one of those classic 'this may be worth studying further' journal-fillers (imo, obv).

Taking it as a 'suggestion', I guess it's worth considering that the appendix may have conferred a benefit slightly in the positive before the invention of modern sanitation etc. There's not much time for it to be 'taking the hint' in that case.

These days, with 7% of humans needing emergency appendectomies at some point during their life, I'd personally want to see some evidence of a health deficit in those who had had their appendix removed to warrant consideration of any current adaptive benefit. I don't know of any such evidence.

I know, picky.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Are you saying clitorises are not a directly selected adaptive trait you fucking monster?!!?!

Huh?

I'm talking about morphology.

 

[8ball]

Huh?

I'm talking about morphology.

Never mind, it was a sort of joke about radical feminism which is partly contingent on having read a particular Stephen Jay Gould book.

at self for massively over-obscure reference

 

[Pickman's model]

Never mind, it was a sort of joke about radical feminism which is partly contingent on having read a particular Stephen Jay Gould book.

at self for massively over-obscure reference

haha

 

[JimW]

The Naked Ape was written by a man with a comb-over, which I feel is a self-refutation.
Any way, noting that we're animals is a bit like noting that we're a series of chemical processes - not wrong and worth bearing in mind but inadequate as a basis for anything but a very Mickey Mouse analysis of human history and social relationships.

 

[8ball]

The Naked Ape was written by a man with a comb-over, which I feel is a self-refutation.
Any way, noting that we're animals is a bit like noting that we're a series of chemical processes - not wrong and worth bearing in mind but inadequate as a basis for anything but a very Mickey Mouse analysis of human history and social relationships.

Are you suggesting that Mickey Mouse is merely an animal too?

 

[JimW]

Are you suggesting that Mickey Mouse is merely an animal too?

Finest steamboat captain ever to pull his horn, so to speak.

 

[Spud Murfy]

Ear lobes. Toe hair.

Ahem, ear lobes are very useful in helping to localise sound sources. Toe hair, fair enough.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The Naked Ape was written by a man with a comb-over, which I feel is a self-refutation..

In his younger days, Charles Darwin had a combover.

 

[8ball]

Ahem, ear lobes are very useful in helping to localise sound sources. Toe hair, fair enough.

Ear lobes? Really?

I thought it was the general 'cartilage trumpet' thing that did that.
And toe hair is very good for letting you know when your socks are sliding down. Hence adaptive-survival-not-tripping-when-running-from-bear blah de blah..

 

[Spud Murfy]

Ear lobes? Really? I thought it was the general 'cartilage trumpet' thing that did that.

Yes the whole shape of the pinna comb-filters the sound that reaches the inner ear and that helps localisation. It's what we have instead of the independently-moveable funnel-like ears of dogs etc.

 

[William of Walworth]

[previous page]

Even if I were an atheist, I'd make it my business to know the Bible, seeing as its by far the most influential book in the history of the world like.

Going along with the possibility that you really are not an atheist phil ....

To what extent is your non-atheism the basis for your opposition** to 'Darwinism'?

Inverted commas deliberate, as the term means pretty different things on either side of the Atlantic

(**Opposition overtly stated by you in an earlier post further up ... to which my reply-question was roughly, what then would you oppose 'Darwinism' with?)

 

[8ball]

Yes the whole shape of the pinna comb-filters the sound that reaches the inner ear and that helps localisation. It's what we have instead of the independently-moveable funnel-like ears of dogs etc.

Does that mean people without ear lobes are easier to sneak up on?

 

[gentlegreen]

Are we getting into attached lobes territory ?

 

[8ball]

Are we getting into attached lobes territory ?

I guess that's what I meant - does the 'hangy' bit do anything in an acoustic sense.

edit: found this, which is what I understood to be the case - may have been superseded...

 

[Spud Murfy]

It might have a very small effect. Binaural recordings are made by putting tiny microphones inside each ear canal and they can produce very realistic-sounding recordings when listened to over headphones - realism meaning the impression of precise localisation of sound sources.

This example of a binaural recording is probably YouTube's most popular audio-only upload ever:



You need to wear headphones to get the full effect.

Binaural recordings are supposed to sound best when you listen to recordings you've made yourself, i.e. your own ear shape produces a unique pattern of very subtle auditory cues which your brain has adapted to over a lifetime.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It might have a very small effect. Binaural recordings are made by putting tiny microphones inside each ear canal and they can produce very realistic-sounding recordings when listened to over headphones. But the results are supposed to sound best when you listen to recordings you've made yourself, i.e. your own ear shape produces a unique pattern of very subtle auditory cues which your brain has adapted to over a lifetime.

That doesn't necessarily show that ear lobes improve hearing, though, does it, merely that they in some way modify it.

 

[gentlegreen]

I'm sure there was an Urban thread about earlobes - mine are attached so I'm a deviant or something ...