Who will be the next Labour leader?

[Smokeandsteam]

In passing, I've noticed - in this piece and others - that the guardian have stopped referring to him as 'Sir'. Though, TBF, his name hasn't yet shrunk as much as that of The Right Honourable Lord Stansgate, Anthony Neil Wedgewood Benn.

Ah, glad you’ve picked up on this. I’ve noticed the managed packaging of ‘Kier’ by the Guardian too. If I get the time I might start a new thread by linking these snippets to try to show how it’s being done and the form of politics and ideas it represents.

Mind you their support has a practical dimension too. Toynbee actually had the brass neck to write an article about her phone banking for Starmer and present it as analysis.....

Keir Starmer has what it takes to be Labour leader, but some are unconvinced | Polly Toynbee

After a day on the frontrunner’s phonebank talking to members, it is clear how much is at stake in this contest, says Guardian columnist Polly Toynbee

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pickman's model]

Women prisoners should not be at risk from the particular dangers inherent in sharing space with a person who remains a biological male, anatomically intact, with a record as a violent and repeated rapist.

i think what you're getting at (i haven't been able to listen to the video being at work and that) is that the prison service should follow their own procedures, if you're talking about karen white. this hasn't been hidden, but reported in a well-known national newspaper

 

[Sue]

As sure as eggs are eggs, if Polly's backing someone, they're going to be godawful. So not a huge surprise really.

 

[kebabking]

No idea if it's true but the point jennastan made was that women are largely supportive while men less so, not other way around.

I know - and like Athos, I actually think it's the other way around.

 

[MickiQ]

As it happens, you only get waitrose at service stations in the south. Think they've got one at a services near Stoke but never seen one further north that that.

There's one at Sandbach go past it in occasions

 

[Proper Tidy]

There's one at Sandbach go past it in occasions

Would be sandbach wouldn't it

 

[Proper Tidy]

I know - and like Athos, I actually think it's the other way around.

Fair enough, read to me that athos was saying men are more vocal about it because women are socialised to be passive and accepting

 

[Athos]

Fair enough, read to me that athos was saying men are more vocal about it because women are socialised to be passive and accepting

I was. kebabking has the wrong end if the stick. I've edited my post to make it clearer that I think the majority of men and the majority of women don't believe that trans women are literally women (albeit they accept their right to live as they please), but that men are more willing to express that opinion publicly.

 

[PursuedByBears]

There's one at Sandbach go past it in occasions

Charnock Richard (Preston) and Hartshead Moor (Huddersfield) are the furthest north motorway services with a Waitrose in England; Gretna services just over the Scottish border has one too.

 

[killer b]

Charnock Richard (Preston) and Hartshead Moor (Huddersfield) are the furthest north motorway services with a Waitrose in England; Gretna services just over the Scottish border has one too.

I have this mental map in my head too.

 

[PursuedByBears]

I have this mental map in my head too.

I used to drive on these roads a lot

 

[killer b]

Unless your route happens to take you via Gloucester or Tebay, it's the best way to judge which services is likely to be able to sort you out.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Unless your route happens to take you via Gloucester or Tebay, it's the best way to judge which services is likely to be able to sort you out.

Gloucester services is awful. I liked it the first time, then I went again and realised they were charging me £6 for an organic scotch egg and a bottle of water. The ones with greggs are the best.

 

[killer b]

Gloucester services is awful. I liked it the first time, then I went again and realised they were charging me £6 for an organic scotch egg and a bottle of water. The ones with greggs are the best.

at the moto a bit further down the motorway you could spend £6 on a marks & spencer scotch egg and a bottle of water though. It's not as if gouging prices isn't the norm.

 

[Proper Tidy]

at the moto a bit further down the motorway you could spend £6 on a marks & spencer scotch egg and a bottle of water though. It's not as if gouging prices isn't the norm.

Yeah but gloucester is £££ even for services. And for some eco hippy farmshop type place, last time I was there they had no water refill station hence why I had to buy water

 

[killer b]

Oh, I've never bought petrol there - just coffee and sausage rolls, which compare very favourably price-wise to all the shithole services on the rest of the motorway network, except they're actually nice things to eat and drink, and a pleasant relaxing surrounding to eat and drink them in.

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

Here, in all it’s glory, is why Starmer is unfit to lead the Labour Party, or even be in the shadow cabinet:

Labour leadership contest: Keir Starmer defends Brexit policy

Favourite to succeed Jeremy Corbyn says party was right and should have gone further

www.theguardian.com

Starmer couldn’t be any more clear. The problem isn’t him, the policy or the politics that led to Labour to end up with a slow motion car crash policy on Brexit. Given this is the case it is clear that for him the blame must be placed firmly at the door of the electorate.

That Sir Kier is the political representative of the new most dangerous class - the Waitrose narrating class cabal - couldn’t be clearer. That it’s ideas are embedded within his campaign is now clear. Those ideas are increasingly anti-democratic and the Brechtian delivery of them is highly disturbing

Labour were polling at 20%, behind the Lib Dems before they adopted the second referendum policy, and they were never going to be able to “out-Brexit” the Tories so yeah, labour might well have done even worse without it.

 

[brogdale]

Labour were polling at 20% behind the Lib Dems before they adopted the second referendum policy

Have to say; I don't recall that.

 

[killer b]

Labour were polling at 20% behind the Lib Dems before they adopted the second referendum policy, and they were never going to be able to “out-Brexit” the Tories so yeah, labour might well have done even worse without it.

Were you recently a member of the lib dems by any chance?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Labour were polling at 20% behind the Lib Dems before they adopted the second referendum policy, and they were never going to be able to “out-Brexit” the Tories so yeah, labour might well have done even worse without it.

Here are 4 quick points to muse on:

1. Labour came within a few thousand votes of being in government in 2017 on a manifesto that promised to honour the result of the referendum. I’d argue that’s a better metric to begin from than polling around a Euro election. The experience of the last 20 years is that claims that ‘the era of two party politics are over’ are always overblown.

2. Nobody is suggesting Labour should ‘out-Brexit’ the Tories. A Labour policy of respecting the result, to enact it and to promote a social democratic future for ordinary people would have been a sensible approach.

3. There is overwhelming evidence that Labour’s policy on Brexit - along with Corbyn - was the main reason given by Labour voters for switching to the Tories. Labour had its worst election result since 1935. Given these facts what does it say about Waitrose Kier that the conclusion he draws from it all is that the policy was the right one?

4. Part of the problem that Corbyn had was that every time he thought a policy on Brexit had been agreed and that it was one his own side would get behind he faced anonymous briefings and demands to go further away from the 2017 position and closer to the PV position. When this point was reached even this wasn’t enough and who then continued the briefing and led the charge for full remain. Yup, it’s Waitrose Kier (his Brexit Secretary) Watson and Lady Nugee

 

[Shechemite]

The Brexit backpedaling of Labour was particularly damaging for their chances with Corbyn leading - what with him being/perceived to be a Marxist, terrorist sympathiser

 

[Proper Tidy]

I'm fairly sure labour has never been 20% behind the libdems in the entire history of the libdems. Must be a hundred years since labour was last 20% behind the libdems predecessor

 

[Humberto]

They're (Labour members) going to have to make trade-offs and accept imperfections. I don't think the pool of candidates is that bad on that basis. I'd go for Nandy if I was a member simply because I think she will take care of the basics and IMO has more chance of not being shook off course by a rabid Tory press.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I'm fairly sure labour has never been 20% behind the libdems in the entire history of the libdems. Must be a hundred years since labour was last 20% behind the libdems predecessor

I think the poster is getting the LDs mixed up with the Brexit Party and these results from the euros:

 

[William of Walworth]

Labour were polling at 20% behind the Lib Dems

I'm fairly sure labour has never been 20% behind the libdems in the entire history of the libdems. Must be a hundred years since labour was last 20% behind the libdems predecessor

fakeplasticgirl 's word emphasised for accuracy

(Not that I agree with her general point or anything, but! )

 

[Proper Tidy]

fakeplasticgirl 's word emphasised for accuracy

(Not that I agree with her general point or anything, but! )

Ah fair enough, get it now

 

[William of Walworth]

Yeah but gloucester is £££ even for services. And for some eco hippy farmshop type place, last time I was there they had no water refill station hence why I had to buy water

Blatant derail-maintenance here , but don't all, or nearly all, motorway service stations have the same problem??

 

[redsquirrel]

Labour were polling at 20% behind the Lib Dems before they adopted the second referendum policy, and they were never going to be able to “out-Brexit” the Tories so yeah, labour might well have done even worse without it.

No they weren't - at least not in Westminster polling - at no point were Labour consistently polling behind the LDs nor were they consistently polling below 20%.
Nobody has claimed that Labour were able to, or even needed to, "'out-Brexit' the Tories" what was raised (correctly as it turned out) that while Labour leaver voters were a relatively small portion of Labour voters they were a key demographic based on their distribution in marginal seats.

 

[William of Walworth]

And also quite safe seats in some cases, as it turned out?

 

[fakeplasticgirl]

I'm fairly sure labour has never been 20% behind the libdems in the entire history of the libdems. Must be a hundred years since labour was last 20% behind the libdems predecessor

Not 20% behind the Lib dems- 20% in the polls, which was behind the Lib Dems