Who will be the next Labour leader?

[MrSki]

if I was an LP member, but she seems to be aiming to rival Barry Gardiner in the charisma bypass stakes.

Shame I thought this was is launch video.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I wonder when the Guardian article calling everyone voting for Starmer a sexist will come out. I mean they wouldn't apply that selectively right?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

So it looks like it will be Starmer. Happy with that, but now wondering if the Sunday tory press will start releasing whatever dirty they have on file.

If it is Starmer, the Tory press’ strategy will be three-fold: (1) he’s pro EU, tried to block Brexit, can’t trust him that he won’t try and rejoin etc.: (2) hold him responsible for every scumbag who wasn’t prosecuted under his watch as DPP; (3) attack him for providing legal representation for individuals and groups deemed unpatriotic.

These lines of attack - especially the first two - will be very effective, no matter how bullshit they are.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

They’ll also portray him as soft on immigrants and asylum seekers, a threat to nation security, part of the metropolitan elite etc.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

They’ll also portray him as soft on immigrants and asylum seekers, a threat to nation security, part of the metropolitan elite etc.

Anyone is going to get that tbf. They can't be picking a leader on the basis of 'who won't the right wing press attack' as that person doesn't exist.

 

[Poi E]

The loathing for London/"metropolitan elite" is a brilliant wheeze. The centre is effete, multicultural, weak, and only the burning fire of Brexit can clean it. Manages to take in racism, exceptionalism with a dose of puritanism and that hoary old English bullshit of being reasonable people not prone to excitement.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Anyone is going to get that tbf. They can't be picking a leader on the basis of 'who won't the right wing press attack' as that person doesn't exist.

I agree, though the metropolitan elite line will be harder to push with RLB. With her I guess the ‘loony left’ ‘she’ll turn the UK into Venezuela’ angle will be the dominant one.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

If it is Starmer, the Tory press’ strategy will be three-fold: (1) he’s pro EU, tried to block Brexit, can’t trust him that he won’t try and rejoin etc.: (2) hold him responsible for every scumbag who wasn’t prosecuted under his watch as DPP; (3) attack him for providing legal representation for individuals and groups deemed unpatriotic.

These lines of attack - especially the first two - will be very effective, no matter how bullshit they are.

Starmer's problem with attack line 1 is that it is true. His ultra remain position alone makes him utterly unsuited for the task that Labour faces. That the conclusion he seems to have drawn from the disaster is that Labour wasn't remain enough brings into focus questions of basic competence. As for the latter two points of attack, there is no getting around his background as a key mover and shaker of the liberal narrating class. He needs to own it and deal with it.

 

[andysays]

Starmer's problem with attack line 1 is that it is true. His ultra remain position alone makes him utterly unsuited for the task that Labour faces. That the conclusion he seems to have drawn from the disaster is that Labour wasn't remain enough brings into focus questions of basic competence. As for the latter two points of attack, there is no getting around his background as a key mover and shaker of the liberal narrating class. He needs to own it and deal with it.

Given that the majority of Labour members, as opposed to voters, are/were apparently Remain supporters, Starmer's stance may not be an obstacle to becoming leader.

It's after that that the problems would start.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Given that the majority of Labour members, as opposed to voters, are/were apparently Remain supporters, Starmer's stance may not be an obstacle to becoming leader.

It's after that that the problems would start.

Exactly, the media and Tories will say very little at this point. But if Starmer wins, his position - which was to ignore the leader and conference, and keep pushing for a full remain position will be used to hammer him again and again. Wrong, disloyal and anti-democratic. Not a good look.

 

[Pickman's model]

Leadership frontrunners both appoint pro-Corbyn figures to campaign teams - LabourList | Latest UK Labour Party news, analysis and comment

Both frontrunners in Labour’s leadership race – Rebecca Long-Bailey and Keir Starmer – have appointed key Corbynite figures…

labourlist.org

LB appoints Lansmann as campaign director, Mat Cousins, Starmer more wider, Kat Fletcher(wasn't shein Workers Liberty once) and Simon Fletcher key Corbyn aides, but also Kendalls former L/S Bid organiser, Morgan McSweeney.

wondering who Lisa is appointing.

lisa who?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Exactly, the media and Tories will say very little at this point. But if Starmer wins, his position - which was to ignore the leader and conference, and keep pushing for a full remain position will be used to hammer him again and again. Wrong, disloyal and anti-democratic. Not a good look.

I'd expect the media to be quite supportive of Starmer at this point tbh - they'd much prefer someone like him as Labour leader. Obviously once he was in they'd revert to kicking him as hard as they could.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Starmer's problem with attack line 1 is that it is true. His ultra remain position alone makes him utterly unsuited for the task that Labour faces. That the conclusion he seems to have drawn from the disaster is that Labour wasn't remain enough brings into focus questions of basic competence.

Possibly, though maybe in a few years time, when the dire impact of actually existing Brexit is felt by the public, staunch remainerism may not be viewed so negatively. I suspect though the Tories and their faithful lapdogs in the vermin media will find some boogy man to blame for the country’s economic woes that the gullible public will fall for yet again.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Possibly, though maybe in a few years time, when the dire impact of actually existing Brexit is felt by the public, staunch remainerism may not be viewed so negatively. I suspect though the Tories and their faithful lapdogs in the vermin media will find some boogy man to blame for the country’s economic woes that the gullible public will fall for yet again.

Given the riots and strikes in France - as workers and unions fiercely resist the imposition of the EU's austerity agenda by its stooge Macron - it's clear that there are dire impacts from being part of the supra state too. The idea that there is going to be some popular clamour to rejoin a sinking club of neo-liberalism in a year or two is barmy. Even by your standards.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Given the riots and strikes in France - as workers and unions fiercely resist the imposition of the EU's austerity agenda by its stooge Macron - it's clear that there are dire impacts from being part of the supra state too. The idea that there is going to be some popular clamour to rejoin a sinking club of neo-liberalism in a year or two is barmy. Even by your standards.

Agree the EU is shit, but I dare say that the economic impacts of a Tory Brexit may be worse.

 

[Sasaferrato]

From what I've read in the last few weeks I'm not sure anybody can bring the labor factions together. All sides seem intent on ideological purity rather than forming a left of centre force that can win elections.

It must happen though, otherwise the party might as well disband.

 

[andysays]

Clive Lewis is surfing the current wave of speculation and calling for a referendum on the future of the royal family

 

[SpackleFrog]

Possibly, though maybe in a few years time, when the dire impact of actually existing Brexit is felt by the public, staunch remainerism may not be viewed so negatively. I suspect though the Tories and their faithful lapdogs in the vermin media will find some boogy man to blame for the country’s economic woes that the gullible public will fall for yet again.

This is presumably what Starmer is counting on - that the UK will be even more immiserated post Brexit than it was to start with, and everyone will suddenly realise they voted the wrong way after all. Then he will triumphantly declare "I told you so!" and be swept to power on a wave of popular support.

I wonder how that strategy will work out for him.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Agree that Labour Councils implementing austerity has made them unpopular. I've posted upthread about this and that local community minded people I know in Lambeth / London joined Labour party when Corbyn to try to change how a New Labour/ Blairite Council like mine worked.

However in my patch Brexit is not an issue. My local Council ward ( Coldharbour ) was in the top 10% most deprived wards in the country yet was 80% Remain.

Seem to me that Labour vote in Leave areas transferred to Tories as they wanted Brexit done. Not the same in my area. And Labour vote held up. Inner London is the new red wall.

However all the issues of a Council adminstration dominated by Blairites and the local working class feeling they are not represented still holds in my area. They know this but voting Tory is beyond the pale in my area.

Childrens centres etc have been an issue I my area.

When my popular local ward Clllr was kicked out by the Blairites because she could no longer stomach there way of running the Council they replaced her with the partner of another Blairite Cllr. As the New Labour lot control the selection of Ward Cllrs.

From the start my local Cllrs opposed Corbyn. They were not keen on the new increase of membership.

My popular ward Cllr who was kicked out ( Rachel a long time Cllr) told me that with Blair/ Iraq the membership had dropped off so much it was difficult to fill posts in local ward party. People thought what's the point in staying a member. She was a supporter of the Third Way. But as it progressed she got more fed up with it at a local level.

Agree with most of that but I'd say it was generally a case of not voting rather than voting Tory, although some did switch.

Definitely even Remain voters in many areas of the country preferred the 'get Brexit done' line to 'years more of this'.

 

[LDC]

Given that the majority of Labour members, as opposed to voters, are/were apparently Remain supporters, Starmer's stance may not be an obstacle to becoming leader.

It's after that that the problems would start.

Exactly, a key problem for Labour in the recent debacle was mistaking the membership for the electorate. London/scene bubbles and echo chambers etc etc..

 

[Mr Moose]

This is presumably what Starmer is counting on - that the UK will be even more immiserated post Brexit than it was to start with, and everyone will suddenly realise they voted the wrong way after all. Then he will triumphantly declare "I told you so!" and be swept to power on a wave of popular support.

I wonder how that strategy will work out for him.

Obviously that’s fanciful, but Starmer isn’t saying that tbf.

And unless you believe Tory Brexit is going to deliver prosperity to those forgotten towns and those using foodbanks at some point there will be at least some accounting for the opportunism and bullshit of Brexiteers.

 

[ska invita]

Given that the majority of Labour members, as opposed to voters, are/were apparently Remain supporters, Starmer's stance may not be an obstacle to becoming leader.

It's after that that the problems would start.

Majority Labour voters, 2 to 1 broadly, voted remain
?

Groundhog Day subject this

 

[The39thStep]

Obviously that’s fanciful, but Starmer isn’t saying that tbf.

And unless you believe Tory Brexit is going to deliver prosperity to those forgotten towns and those using foodbanks at some point there will be at least some accounting for the opportunism and bullshit of Brexiteers.

What are Labours plans to regenerate those forgotten towns given the fact that the EU failed to do so?

 

[andysays]

Majority Labour voters, 2 to 1 broadly, voted remain
?

Groundhog Day subject this

That's not my recollection, though I may be wrong.

Are you/your source referring to Labour voters in 2017, 2019 or at some unspecified point in the past?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Obviously that’s fanciful, but Starmer isn’t saying that tbf.

And unless you believe Tory Brexit is going to deliver prosperity to those forgotten towns and those using foodbanks at some point there will be at least some accounting for the opportunism and bullshit of Brexiteers.

Of course he's not saying it, the strategy is to wait until people realise they got it wrong. Then he'll say it.

While the Tory interpretation of the referendum will indeed not satisfy people, that does not mean that a political position of "we were right all along" will be of any use.

 

[Mr Moose]

Of course he's not saying it, the strategy is to wait until people realise they got it wrong. Then he'll say it.

While the Tory interpretation of the referendum will indeed not satisfy people, that does not mean that a political position of "we were right all along" will be of any use.

I really doubt that is going to be the message going forward. It may be ‘you should have made a deal that protected jobs etc’ but unless the whole shebang has gone utterly tits up no one is going to seek to refight the referendum.

 

[Mr Moose]

What are Labours plans to regenerate those forgotten towns given the fact that the EU failed to do so?

What were they before? It has time to develop new ones.

But it’s down to the Tories right now and their feet should be held to the fire over it.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I really doubt that is going to be the message going forward. It may be ‘you should have made a deal that protected jobs etc’ but unless the whole shebang has gone utterly tits up no one is going to seek to refight the referendum.

Wanna bet? Jess Phillips already is.

 

[killer b]

Yes, that's a very good point - for all the radical proposals in the manifesto there was nothing about funding local councils.

There's quite a lot in it about funding local councils. Starting with the very first line of the Communities and Local Government section, Labour will reverse the Tory decade of austerity for local government and aim to restore council spending powers to 2010 levels over the lifetime of the Parliament.

 

[rasputin]

Majority Labour voters, 2 to 1 broadly, voted remain

That's not my recollection, though I may be wrong.

Are you/your source referring to Labour voters in 2017, 2019 or at some unspecified point in the past?

According to the British Election Study, 68% of Labour voters supported remain in the 2016 referendum.