Who will be the next Labour leader?

[SpackleFrog]

Every time I've seen Gardiner on TV, I've thought he was rubbish ....

He was. Quite possibly the worst public speaker of his generation.

He can be an effective speaker, but he’s also a bloody Modi supporter.

No, he can't. Although to be fair to him he probably thinks it is his duty to congratulate anyone who wins an election in another major country/trading partner, and isn't specifically a supporter of Modi's regime.

 

[Proper Tidy]

This shows where Labour MPs votes for leader have gone from 2015 to now.

Are those figures on side percent or actual numbers? It's 10% of all MPs/MEPs to meet threshold isn't it, so at this point only Starmer

 

[The39thStep]

Barry Gardiner has thrown his hat in the ring.

Exclusive: Barry Gardiner Preparing To Run For Labour Leader In Shock Late Entry

Shadow international trade secretary and Corbyn loyalist has begun looking for a campaign team, HuffPost UK understands.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk

If he was Leader if the Opposition we’d have Gardiners Question time on five days a week

 

[belboid]

He was. Quite possibly the worst public speaker of his generation.




No, he can't. Although to be fair to him he probably thinks it is his duty to congratulate anyone who wins an election in another major country/trading partner, and isn't specifically a supporter of Modi's regime.

No, he is an explicit supporter.

Meet the British MP Who Fights for Modi

Modi has found a die-hard fan in British MP Barry Gardiner, who not only has invited him to the House of Commons to speak. but has defended him vigorously and passionately in front of India media.

m.indiatimes.com

 

[SpackleFrog]

No, he is an explicit supporter.

Meet the British MP Who Fights for Modi

Modi has found a die-hard fan in British MP Barry Gardiner, who not only has invited him to the House of Commons to speak. but has defended him vigorously and passionately in front of India media.

m.indiatimes.com

That link says it's not available to people in Europe.

 

[belboid]

Oh,odd, but I am (temporarily) in Singapore I suppose.

Here it is:

Narendra Modi is a popular man in India. Divisive, yes. Polarizing, yes. Always in news, yes. But unpopular, never. And Modi's popularity seems to have crossed oceans and reached foreign shores. Modi has found a die-hard fan in British MP Barry Gardiner, who not only has invited him to the House of Commons to speak. but has defended him vigorously and passionately in front of India media.


Gardiner is a Labour MP from Brent North who says he has had a 13 year old association with 'Narendra Bhai and counts him as a friend.He is also the chairman of Labour Friends of India. The influential Labour organisation endeavours to strengthen relations between the Labour Party and India and engage the UK-Indian Community with British politics. While extending the invitation to Gujarat CM, Gardiner had stated that people in the UK and indeed the international community would be very interested to meet and hear what Narendra Modi has to say first hand.The House of Commons is the lower house of the Parliament of the United Kingdom and Modi has been invited to speak on 'The Future of Modern India.
Modi expressed his gratitude for the invitation through Twitter.


Earlier, ending a decade-long boycott of Gujarat post 2002 communal riots, the UK government had resumed dialogue with the state last year when the British High Commissioner James Bevan met Modi and initiated discussions on a range of issues, including climate change and investment.
But Gardiner's views about Modi, which he revealed to TOI in an interview, seem to be bordering on fandom. On being asked why he was so keen on inviting Modi,Gardiner said, "Whether or not Modi goes on to become India's next prime minister, nobody can deny he is clearly one of India's most influential political actors. Hence, his view on how he wants to see India in the near future is of great interest to the UK and Europe,"
And ofcourse, when one speaks about Modi, the topic that is bound to come up is his handling of the 2002 Gujarat riots and the subsequential communal tag that got attached to his name. This has cost BJP the support of NDA allies such as Nitish Kumar led JDU, as well as become the main point of attack for the opposition in the lead up to the 2014 general elections. But it doesn't bother Gardiner a bit. On Gujarat riots, Gardiner said, "The Supreme Court has till now exonerated Modi of all charges regarding the riots, and I believe the Supreme Court. We have to access the man on his capability to govern."
So fervent is Gardiner's support of Modi, that he totally talked down two of India's famous media personalities during interviews about his decision to invite Modi. He berated them for calling Modi a controversial figure and told them to respect the Supreme Court's decision, without really answering their questions
Whether this is part of Modi's elaborate PR effort or just another chapter in the global acceptance of Modi, we may never know. But one thing is sure, Modi's clout outside India is growing by leaps and bounds and this factor cannot be ignored by the classes or the masses, come 2014.

 

[andysays]

Not your sharpest take.

One factor that isn't discussed enough about Labour's collapse in its former heartlands is that it is Labour local authorities who have been dutifully implementing Tory austerity for a decade. Ask a lot of people what they know about their local labour politicians and you might find that what they know is that their Labour council 'consulted' them on whether they should be cutting childrens centres or adult social care and then cut both anyway. As others have said, the first test of a new Labour leader will be the local elections, where, if they actually want to get some good results, it might be a good idea to address that. You don't have to know about specific areas blighted by potholes or bus routes which have disappeared but it would be nice if candidates could say something about what Labour councils should be doing if re-elected wouldn't it?

This is a fair point, but I wonder what power or even direct influence the new Labour leader will have over the actions of Labour councils up and down the country.

 

[sleaterkinney]

How can people vote for RLB and not the Gardiner/Burgon dream ticket?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Oh,odd, but I am (temporarily) in Singapore I suppose.

Here it is:

Narendra Modi is a popular man in India. Divisive, yes. Polarizing, yes. Always in news, yes. But unpopular, never. And Modi's popularity seems to have crossed oceans and reached foreign shores. Modi has found a die-hard fan in British MP Barry Gardiner, who not only has invited him to the House of Commons to speak. but has defended him vigorously and passionately in front of India media.


Gardiner is a Labour MP from Brent North who says he has had a 13 year old association with 'Narendra Bhai and counts him as a friend.He is also the chairman of Labour Friends of India. The influential Labour organisation endeavours to strengthen relations between the Labour Party and India and engage the UK-Indian Community with British politics. While extending the invitation to Gujarat CM, Gardiner had stated that people in the UK and indeed the international community would be very interested to meet and hear what Narendra Modi has to say first hand.The House of Commons is the lower house of the Parliament of the United Kingdom and Modi has been invited to speak on 'The Future of Modern India.
Modi expressed his gratitude for the invitation through Twitter.


Earlier, ending a decade-long boycott of Gujarat post 2002 communal riots, the UK government had resumed dialogue with the state last year when the British High Commissioner James Bevan met Modi and initiated discussions on a range of issues, including climate change and investment.
But Gardiner's views about Modi, which he revealed to TOI in an interview, seem to be bordering on fandom. On being asked why he was so keen on inviting Modi,Gardiner said, "Whether or not Modi goes on to become India's next prime minister, nobody can deny he is clearly one of India's most influential political actors. Hence, his view on how he wants to see India in the near future is of great interest to the UK and Europe,"
And ofcourse, when one speaks about Modi, the topic that is bound to come up is his handling of the 2002 Gujarat riots and the subsequential communal tag that got attached to his name. This has cost BJP the support of NDA allies such as Nitish Kumar led JDU, as well as become the main point of attack for the opposition in the lead up to the 2014 general elections. But it doesn't bother Gardiner a bit. On Gujarat riots, Gardiner said, "The Supreme Court has till now exonerated Modi of all charges regarding the riots, and I believe the Supreme Court. We have to access the man on his capability to govern."
So fervent is Gardiner's support of Modi, that he totally talked down two of India's famous media personalities during interviews about his decision to invite Modi. He berated them for calling Modi a controversial figure and told them to respect the Supreme Court's decision, without really answering their questions
Whether this is part of Modi's elaborate PR effort or just another chapter in the global acceptance of Modi, we may never know. But one thing is sure, Modi's clout outside India is growing by leaps and bounds and this factor cannot be ignored by the classes or the masses, come 2014.

This seems to be a better link - Naming and Shaming: Barry Gardiner

Whether it constitutes explicit support I'm not sure although the million quid thing seems pretty dodgy.

I'm sure we can all agree Gardiner is fucking awful in every possible way anyway.

 

[SpackleFrog]

This is a fair point, but I wonder what power or even direct influence the new Labour leader will have over the actions of Labour councils up and down the country.

Might it not be too optimistic that a new Labour leader with a fresh mandate to lead could possibly influence Labour councillors? As mighty as they are.

I doubt it's going to happen but lets not make excuses for them in advance. Even steps to democratise the party, and give District Labour Party's some mechanism to hold their councillors to account, could make a big difference. Campaigning to restore funding and pledges to provide councils with the funds to run services properly when in govt could also make a big difference.

 

[Spandex]

One factor that isn't discussed enough about Labour's collapse in its former heartlands is that it is Labour local authorities who have been dutifully implementing Tory austerity for a decade. Ask a lot of people what they know about their local labour politicians and you might find that what they know is that their Labour council 'consulted' them on whether they should be cutting childrens centres or adult social care and then cut both anyway. As others have said, the first test of a new Labour leader will be the local elections, where, if they actually want to get some good results, it might be a good idea to address that. You don't have to know about specific areas blighted by potholes or bus routes which have disappeared but it would be nice if candidates could say something about what Labour councils should be doing if re-elected wouldn't it?

One of the things Corbyn utterly failed to do – both in the election and over his time as Labour leader - was make the link between austerity as a vague concept (which was ‘bad’), the funding cuts to councils and the day to day impact this had on people’s lives. Of course we could all relive the arguments over what Labour councils could or couldn’t, should and didn’t do about the funding cuts, but Corbyn never made explicit that austerity led to cuts to council funding which led to cuts to social care and children’s centres and reduced bin collections and local playgrounds falling apart and support services failing and leading to more homelessness and all the other things that anybody with the vaguest awareness couldn’t have failed to notice. Amongst all his spending commitments in the election I didn’t notice him talk about council funding. It was as if cuts to council services and their impacts were nothing to do with central government decisions, which left the blame for council cuts, which fell disproportionately on Labour councils, and the anger at the consequences aimed at the councils who administered it rather than the government, which was ultimately responsible.

 

[SpackleFrog]

One of the things Corbyn utterly failed to do – both in the election and over his time as Labour leader - was make the link between austerity as a vague concept (which was ‘bad’), the funding cuts to councils and the day to day impact this had on people’s lives. Of course we could all relive the arguments over what Labour councils could or couldn’t, should and didn’t do about the funding cuts, but Corbyn never made explicit that austerity led to cuts to council funding which led to cuts to social care and children’s centres and reduced bin collections and local playgrounds falling apart and support services failing and leading to more homelessness and all the other things that anybody with the vaguest awareness couldn’t have failed to notice. Amongst all his spending commitments in the election I didn’t notice him talk about council funding. It was as if cuts to council services and their impacts were nothing to do with central government decisions, which left the blame for council cuts, which fell disproportionately on Labour councils, and the anger at the consequences aimed at the councils who administered it rather than the government, which was ultimately responsible.

Yes, that's a very good point - for all the radical proposals in the manifesto there was nothing about funding local councils.

 

[Azrael]

One of the things Corbyn utterly failed to do – both in the election and over his time as Labour leader - was make the link between austerity as a vague concept (which was ‘bad’), the funding cuts to councils and the day to day impact this had on people’s lives. Of course we could all relive the arguments over what Labour councils could or couldn’t, should and didn’t do about the funding cuts, but Corbyn never made explicit that austerity led to cuts to council funding which led to cuts to social care and children’s centres and reduced bin collections and local playgrounds falling apart and support services failing and leading to more homelessness and all the other things that anybody with the vaguest awareness couldn’t have failed to notice. Amongst all his spending commitments in the election I didn’t notice him talk about council funding. It was as if cuts to council services and their impacts were nothing to do with central government decisions, which left the blame for council cuts, which fell disproportionately on Labour councils, and the anger at the consequences aimed at the councils who administered it rather than the government, which was ultimately responsible.

Excellent point.

The SNP have this nailed down, constantly pushing the message that their hands are tied by Tory austerity and Westminster in general, and publicising how they work to mitigate it. Doubt it's any coincidence that Vote Leave (original in 2016 and 2.0 last December) failed to gain traction in Scotland, but have repeatedly triumphed in England, where their deflection's been trumpeted endlessly to great effect.

The party of the Bain Principle will of course be loathed to take any lessons from the Nats, but it's not like they invented message discipline, they're just using it well, as, tragically, are the Tories.

 

[Supine]

 

[Azrael]

There go the debates ...

 

[Smokeandsteam]

View attachment 195409

Shortest leadership bid ever. Bizarre. Even for them

 

[Supine]

Shortest leadership bid ever. Bizarre. Even for them

I bet people weren't even picking up the phone

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Here are the latest nominations. Thornberry has 7 and Lewis 4

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I bet people weren't even picking up the phone

Most probably had him on block.

 

[xenon]

Every time I've seen Gardiner on TV, I've thought he was rubbish ....

A total fucking Charisma bypass. Which let’s face it, is important. He has a very ignorable voice.

 

[Supine]

So it looks like it will be Starmer. Happy with that, but now wondering if the Sunday tory press will start releasing whatever dirty they have on file.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I predict it won't be starmer

 

[xenon]

if Barry Gardiner is the answer, what’s the question?

if Barry Gardiner is the answer, what’s the question?

Who’s bringing the biscuits to the meeting.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

So it looks like it will be Starmer. Happy with that, but now wondering if the Sunday tory press will start releasing whatever dirty they have on file.

For the PLP certainly, and no doubt for other unions in addition to Unison. He’s also the choice for faux socialists like Paul Mason. But the membership vote might be a somewhat different matter. However, given the dismal RLB campaign to date, he looks like the one to beat at present

 

[William of Walworth]

I predict it won't be starmer

Odds???

 

[William of Walworth]

given the dismal RLB campaign to date, he looks like the one to beat at present

Sadly that looks like being true.

I theoretically would be favouring RLB heavily, if I was an LP member, but she seems to be aiming to rival Barry Gardiner in the charisma bypass stakes.

More importantly, despite me being a fan of New Green Deal etc., she's far too vague at getting anything across.

My own (outsider) odds suggest Starmer MAY end up with a strong win.

I'm not liking that, but the competition eed to get their shit together .....

 

[Proper Tidy]

Odds???

2 pints to 1

 

[William of Walworth]

2 pints to 1

You'll lose ...

 

[Gramsci]

Not your sharpest take.

One factor that isn't discussed enough about Labour's collapse in its former heartlands is that it is Labour local authorities who have been dutifully implementing Tory austerity for a decade. Ask a lot of people what they know about their local labour politicians and you might find that what they know is that their Labour council 'consulted' them on whether they should be cutting childrens centres or adult social care and then cut both anyway. As others have said, the first test of a new Labour leader will be the local elections, where, if they actually want to get some good results, it might be a good idea to address that. You don't have to know about specific areas blighted by potholes or bus routes which have disappeared but it would be nice if candidates could say something about what Labour councils should be doing if re-elected wouldn't it?

Agree that Labour Councils implementing austerity has made them unpopular. I've posted upthread about this and that local community minded people I know in Lambeth / London joined Labour party when Corbyn to try to change how a New Labour/ Blairite Council like mine worked.

However in my patch Brexit is not an issue. My local Council ward ( Coldharbour ) was in the top 10% most deprived wards in the country yet was 80% Remain.

Seem to me that Labour vote in Leave areas transferred to Tories as they wanted Brexit done. Not the same in my area. And Labour vote held up. Inner London is the new red wall.

However all the issues of a Council adminstration dominated by Blairites and the local working class feeling they are not represented still holds in my area. They know this but voting Tory is beyond the pale in my area.

Childrens centres etc have been an issue I my area.

When my popular local ward Clllr was kicked out by the Blairites because she could no longer stomach there way of running the Council they replaced her with the partner of another Blairite Cllr. As the New Labour lot control the selection of Ward Cllrs.

From the start my local Cllrs opposed Corbyn. They were not keen on the new increase of membership.

My popular ward Cllr who was kicked out ( Rachel a long time Cllr) told me that with Blair/ Iraq the membership had dropped off so much it was difficult to fill posts in local ward party. People thought what's the point in staying a member. She was a supporter of the Third Way. But as it progressed she got more fed up with it at a local level.

 

[Proper Tidy]

You'll lose ...

It's alright I'll get you ruddles