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Who will be the next Labour leader?

Who will replace Corbyn?

  • Total voters
    161
Sprocket. said:
ETA: I just remembered my old work colleague who was an apprentice at BAC at Weybridge telling me all the toolmakers there, besides wearing collars and ties at work, used to commute wearing bowler hats.
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At my shipyard* it was the draughtsmen (a third of the workforce in those days) that used to wear the bowlers. When I started my apprenticeship ('85) I must have been the generation between bowlers and hardhats. There was always a heirachy between trades.

when I say "my shipyard" I did not actually OWN the shipyard*, nor was I a director.

**Well, strictly speaking, we were privatised in '85 in an "employee led consortium" where the workforce ended up with 20% of the shares, so, technically, I was of the ruling class at an early age.
 
killer b said:
Fairly sure there's more classes than horny handed sons of toil and the ruling class tbf.
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The working class is not only "horny handed sons of toil". Sure, if you're a sociologist, government statistician, news editor, or into class identity politics, yes they are. If you have any interest in us some day demolishing the capitalist system, then the "more classes" you're sure about will always be spurious.
 
Serge Forward said:
The working class is not only "horny handed sons of toil". Sure, if you're a sociologist, government statistician, news editor, or into class identity politics, yes they are. If you have any interest in us some day demolishing the capitalist system, then the "more classes" you're sure about will always be spurious.
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If I've understood your post right I think this is a bit off, while it may be true there are those who sell labour and those who exploit labour, there obviously are social class divisions which conflict with attempts to build political solidarity as demonstrated by sprocket and pseudonarcissus' posts before yours. I could have just misunderstood your post though
 
Serge Forward said:
The working class is not only "horny handed sons of toil".
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I know they aren't, but you started with the weird binaries. A teacher might not be ruling class, but most of them - certainly in the 1980s when my dad became one, and still in most cases now too - belong to the middle classes.
 
Sprocket. said:
The trade of Toolmaker was regarded as the highest level of mechanical craftsmanship when I started as an apprentice millwright in 1974.
All the toolmakers where I worked wore collars and ties, despite the obvious health and safety aspect. The older ones expected you to call them Mister whatever there surnames were.
All of them looked down their noses at the rest of the workforce. Until they needed union backing of course. Obviously charge hands and supervisors in that department thought they were god’s gift.
ETA: I just remembered my old work colleague who was an apprentice at BAC at Weybridge telling me all the toolmakers there, besides wearing collars and ties at work, used to commute wearing bowler hats.
Click to expand...

The toolroom in ‘my factory’ was organised by a different union. They were AEU. The semi skilled were TGWU and the unskilled GMB. This also operated as an unofficial colour coding system - white workers AEU, black and white (by trade) TGWU and Asians in the GMB.

I remember all of the toolroom had voted for Thatcher (Major had just replaced her when I left school) and loads of them used to brag about their villas in Spain.

I applied to do an apprenticeship in there as their bonuses were unbelievable. The senior steward was part of the ‘interview panel’ who rejected my application. I fucking hated them after that...
 
Smokeandsteam said:
The toolroom in ‘my factory’ was organised by a different union. They were AEU. The semi skilled were TGWU and the unskilled GMB. This also operated as an unofficial colour coding system - white workers AEU, black and white (by trade) TGWU and Asians in the GMB.

I remember all of the toolroom had voted for Thatcher (Major had just replaced her when I left school) and loads of them used to brag about their villas in Spain.

I applied to do an apprenticeship in there as their bonuses were unbelievable. The senior steward was part of the ‘interview panel’ who rejected my application. I fucking hated them after that...
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I couldn’t agree with you more.
Where I was we were all in the AUEW as it was then. Though different sections for different skill levels.
But toolmakers, pah. They were just a bunch of elitist bastards as far as we were concerned and obviously all were only union members as most of Sheffield at the time operated closed shops. Self serving and self centred. I too realised then what an uphill struggle anyone trying to unify the working class would have.
ETA: The electricians were all in EPTU, but that’s another story.
 
Unlike a lot of others on here I'm totally disinterested in Starmer's class background. He could have gone to Eton or been the son of a dustman for all I give a fuck.

What matters is him holding the government to account and he's not doing that effectively. Far too appeasing.

Also, he'll never win an election because he's an out-and-out remainer. I myself am an out-and-out remainer but don't think the Labour Party should be headed by one. His disappointing showing in the polls demonstrates this - no bounce, at a time when the tories should be shamed and vilified.

I didn't vote for her, but would be far happier to have seen Lisa Nandy as leader. Really not impressed with Starmer so far.
 
oryx said:
Unlike a lot of others on here I'm totally disinterested in Starmer's class background. He could have gone to Eton or been the son of a dustman for all I give a fuck.
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Starmer isn't. Any politician using class heuristics as a means of self-promotion can surely expect some scrutiny of their claims?
Particularly someone presuming to lead the party formed from organised labour.
 
killer b said:
The prolier than thou people were those in the Starmer camp who kept shrieking 'son of a toolmaker! the most working class leader in decades!' throughout the leadership election.
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The worst bit about that is that is all they think working-class people care about; a sort of "he is whatever it is you lot are" thing that must be one of their diagnostic traits by now.

If they'd told everyone his dad helped with club cycling and was a rambler (which I didn't know before reading the fakeplasticgirl post above) people of all sorts would think positively of him, but of course that would be impossible because they aren't interested in that and therefore it stands to reason no-one else would be.
 
killer b said:
The prolier than thou people were those in the Starmer camp who kept shrieking 'son of a toolmaker! the most working class leader in decades!' throughout the leadership election.
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He might actually be the most wc leader in a while, more so than Corbyn. Wasn’t RLB straight from the Salford docks also?

Its bs because people are happily voting in old Etonian leaders.
 
killer b said:
The prolier than thou people were those in the Starmer camp who kept shrieking 'son of a toolmaker! the most working class leader in decades!' throughout the leadership election.
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The only reason I brought it up was because people on here were banging on about him being an upper class posho. I don’t care about his background.
 
fakeplasticgirl said:
The only reason I brought it up was because people on here were banging on about him being an upper class posho. I don’t care about his background.
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So he's a traitor, then. Still a cunt either way.

No comment about his u-turn regarding rent controls? Popular with the public but not with landlords. We can all see who he's really working for.
 
Is Sir Keir Starmer KCB PC QC MP, former DPP, working class or not cos his dad did a highly skilled manual job at a time when a much larger proportion of the population did manual work or nah is the most fucking bizarre political talking point in an increasingly bizarre political era. Fuck off. Looks posh, sounds posh, is posh.
 
NoXion said:
So he's a traitor, then. Still a cunt either way.

No comment about his u-turn regarding rent controls? Popular with the public but not with landlords. We can all see who he's really working for.
Click to expand...
Traitor? for doing well for himself? Nice use of language.

I don’t have to agree with every labour policy to still think starmer is miles better than what came before.
 
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