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who is responsible for the London attacks?

doens't make sense

well not much of it makes sense, but the they left the info behind cos they thought it would be destroyed is just wrong. If it was masterminded as they keep saying by the man with the black face then you would think all these possibilities through and not leave stuff incase something went wrong.
 
'I hardly know anything. They only gave me a rucksack to carry on the tube in London. We wanted to stage an attack, but only as a show. Who gave me the explosive? I don't know. I didn't know him. I don't remember. '

This sounds highly plausible to me.

In the past 'suicide bombers' have only committed suicide as a necessity to carry out their attack. And there's no doubt when they do it, their families know, they want you to know about it, and they might cry 'Allah Ahkbar' before they pull the rip cord of the Almighty.

Why is so much of this just not adding up? I have seen no evidence that any of the July events are the work of 'suicide' bombers.

What did this guy think he was doing? I certainly don't know. I wonder if he knew himself.
 
'I hardly know anything. They only gave me a rucksack to carry on the tube in London. We wanted to stage an attack, but only as a show. Who gave me the explosive? I don't know. I didn't know him. I don't remember. '
Click to expand...

Some of that's utter shite, stage an attack with explosives he got off some bloke he doesn't know? He's lying, the only question is how much is he lying about.

Stinks to me.
 
Bob_the_lost said:
... stage an attack with explosives he got off some bloke he doesn't know? ...
Click to expand...

"Where's this bomb come from then me Old China?" "Just got it off some bloke, officer" "What's this bloke's name?" "Dunno, just some bloke in the pub" ...

May have been convincing when used by DelBoy, caught with some dodgy, slightly warm Rolexes ... but here .... :rolleyes:
 
fela fan said:
Well, what do you expect?

Once the torture starts mebbe the tune will change.
Click to expand...
What torture techniques do they use in the UK these days?

Care to give some examples of people who have been tortured recently in the UK?
 
Bob_the_lost said:
He's lying, the only question is how much is he lying
about.
Click to expand...

The point is, he's reported as telling contradictory stories. So unless he's got an attack of word salad, someone else is definitely telling porkies.

I think it's down to the "security sources" and strengths of national tipple.

Say that it takes a constant 3 litres of the national tipple to turn an off-duty cop into a "security source".

UK: bitter, 4% alcohol by volume
IT: vino rosso, 12%
RU: voddy, >60%

See, my theory predicts that Pravda will contain even more bollocks than Il Messagero and look... Is Hussein Owner of Crashed UFO?. I rest my case.
 
Still, he seems to be talking and presumably much of his bullshit is checkable, so one trusts they'll eventually get it straight. I wonder though, if he's going to say stuff along the lines of "We did so do it because of Iraq!!!" how will they handle the testimony? If the others who are in UK custody are saying stuff like that I certainly haven't heard of leaks to that effect in the media.

I mean, imagine you're one of the cops interrogating him and he's coming out with stuff like that all the time. Aren't you at least going to wonder about the likely effect on the blood-pressure of the Commissioner, when he reads the transcript. What sort of pressure the narcissist in Downing Street will exert?
 
DrJazzz said:
'I hardly know anything. They only gave me a rucksack to carry on the tube in London. We wanted to stage an attack, but only as a show. Who gave me the explosive? I don't know. I didn't know him. I don't remember. '

This sounds highly plausible to me.

In the past 'suicide bombers' have only committed suicide as a necessity to carry out their attack. And there's no doubt when they do it, their families know, they want you to know about it, and they might cry 'Allah Ahkbar' before they pull the rip cord of the Almighty.

Why is so much of this just not adding up? I have seen no evidence that any of the July events are the work of 'suicide' bombers.

What did this guy think he was doing? I certainly don't know. I wonder if he knew himself.
Click to expand...


Welll he'd have seen that the 7/7 team all got on with rucksacks and were blown to pieces , so the clues were there. WTF did he think he was doing getting on a train/bus wuith a bomb in a rucksack if not planning to blow himself up along with said bomb? Of course they were suicide bombers, and attempted suicide bombers on 21/7.
 
Badger Kitten said:
Welll he'd have seen that the 7/7 team all got on with rucksacks and were blown to pieces , so the clues were there. WTF did he think he was doing getting on a train/bus wuith a bomb in a rucksack if not planning to blow himself up along with said bomb? Of course they were suicide bombers, and attempted suicide bombers on 21/7.
Click to expand...
Why would what he thought he was doing necessarily have anything to do with 7/7? He seems to be confused patsy far more than suicide bomber - the latter is very, very sure of what they are doing. And you completely ignore the fact that suicide bombers only kill themselves if necessary to accomplish their goal. Certainly not the case on 7/7, or 21/7. Why waste the most valuable asset for no good reason?

It's interesting that you ask 'what does he think he was doing if not to blow himself up', as if that absolutely and positively insane option is the one making any sense!

There is no proper evidence that we have suicide bombers in this country. And I am certain we don't. You know when our police shot the unfortunate Brazilian I was going to post 'I bet he's completely innocent' - because we don't have genuine suicide bombers, we have patsies, but didn't because I would have been flamed to fuck with the reactionary mood that was present :(
 
I thought the goal of suicide bombers was to blow themselves up as martyrs and be welcomed into the afterlife for the herioc assault on the infidel - it's a cult, it's heroic to them. Take the bomb, get on the bus, detonate it, bang, well done, off to Paradise. There's a programme on Thursday at 9pm all about it, the Cult of Suicide Bombers, watch that and see that it's a whole movement.
 
Badger Kitten said:
Here is a rather OTT article on it
Click to expand...

Rather OTT indeed.

In fact it's anti-politics and anti-solution. As you'd expect from the Mail.

This bit is a classic of the genre:

hatred can transfer itself into the minds of young Muslims anywhere at the click of a computer mouse.

Suicide bombing is the ultimate weapon of sheer terror.
Click to expand...

It's all the fault of that interweb I tell ye!

* Goes off to google "why does the name 'Kevin Toolis' make me think 'dimwit'?" *
 
DrJ, i can't belive you're still convinced that these were not suicide bombers, look at the fourth man on 7/7, you think that they were planning on leaving the bombs rather than suicide with them. Why didn't he leave his bag?

What about the actions on 21/7, you think that they were again fooled into it? It's ridiculous that four people all carried heavy backpacks that didn't belong to them onto the tube and busses without looking. Even more ridiculous is trying to explain thier behaviour because of it. Even small explosions are enough to shock you, the bloke who had one go off on his back and then ran out the tube station should have been looking at the pretty birdies, the only way he would have been that quick on his feet was if he knew about the explosion before it happend.

Your theory is ridiculous.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Still, he seems to be talking and presumably much of his bullshit is checkable, so one trusts they'll eventually get it straight. I wonder though, if he's going to say stuff along the lines of "We did so do it because of Iraq!!!" how will they handle the testimony? If the others who are in UK custody are saying stuff like that I certainly haven't heard of leaks to that effect in the media.

I mean, imagine you're one of the cops interrogating him and he's coming out with stuff like that all the time. Aren't you at least going to wonder about the likely effect on the blood-pressure of the Commissioner, when he reads the transcript. What sort of pressure the narcissist in Downing Street will exert?
Click to expand...
You are really convinced that Tony Blair is going to knobble these trials aren't you? I can maybe understand why you'd like to believe that (he is an evil nasty person who will stop at nothing etc etc) but what mystifies me is *how* he is going to knobble the judicial process, and if you can point to any examples of him doing it in the past (bar the Hutton enquiry and so forth which weren't criminal investigations). You're not going t6o get all Dr Jazzz on us and start making up brainwashing drugs and CIA lizards are you? :confused:
 
Badger Kitten said:
Murderous death fetishists was what I said three weeks ago, and I haven't changed my mind. It's a death cult.
Click to expand...
A bit like people who climb Everest or try to break deep diving records?

edit: actually there are two differences:

The certainty (and intention) versus the merely high probability of killing yourself. The other is that the suicide bomber believes they are doing it for a greater cause, rather than for a laugh (presumably).
 
Badger Kitten said:
I thought the goal of suicide bombers was to blow themselves up as martyrs and be welcomed into the afterlife for the herioc assault on the infidel - it's a cult, it's heroic to them. Take the bomb, get on the bus, detonate it, bang, well done, off to Paradise. There's a programme on Thursday at 9pm all about it, the Cult of Suicide Bombers, watch that and see that it's a whole movement.
Click to expand...

That's the rationalisation; and it why they will shout 'Allah Akbar!' just before detonation.

I know you have been personally affected by these atrocities BK so please don't think I'm not taking all this very seriously, I just have different beliefs as to what exactly is going on.

I must say - I'm sure along with lots who post on Urban - I've long since stopped having the television dictate things. I might have a look at the programme though if only to see what we are being told.

I am far more interested in what doesn't get shown on televion. Can I ask you to read about Michael Meiring - the one case where we really know who the bad guy was, because he blew his own legs off in his hotel by accident? However it's very unlikely you will have heard of him at all.
 
TeeJay said:
You are really convinced that Tony Blair is going to knobble these trials aren't you? I can maybe understand why you'd like to believe that (he is an evil nasty person who will stop at nothing etc etc) but what mystifies me is *how* he is going to knobble the judicial process, and if you can point to any examples of him doing it in the past (bar the Hutton enquiry and so forth which weren't criminal investigations). You're not going t6o get all Dr Jazzz on us and start making up brainwashing drugs and CIA lizards are you? :confused:
Click to expand...


Oh yes he'd do a civil wrong but a criminal wrong get out of here. :rolleyes:
 
exosculate said:
Oh yes he'd do a civil wrong but a criminal wrong get out of here. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I am asking *how*.

I am also asking for any proof of previous knobbling and any proof of this latest 'theory' - or is this a Dr Jazzz type musing?
 
DrJazzz said:
That's the rationalisation; and it why they will shout 'Allah Akbar!' just before detonation.
Click to expand...
Maybe they were the 'Quaker'* version of Islamist suicide bombers and said it silently to themselves knowing that Allah would be able to hear it anyway? :rolleyes:

More seriously Dr Jazzz, why do you think that there are some kind of "rules" for suicide bombers that must be followed? Why is it impossible that a group of young British guys decided to do a quasi-political/spiritual 'Colombine massacre' as it were? Everything that happens has to have a 'first time', so the fact that this would be a 'first' doesn't make it impossible.

*conveniently ignoring the fact that Quakers are pacifist of course.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
I mean, imagine you're one of the cops interrogating him and he's coming out with stuff like that all the time. Aren't you at least going to wonder about the likely effect on the blood-pressure of the Commissioner, when he reads the transcript. What sort of pressure the narcissist in Downing Street will exert?
Click to expand...

I'd expect you'd make sure it was all accurately recorded - and possibly make a back-up copy or two just in case. After all, it'd be fairly clear to you that the PM's insistence on living up GWB's arse and dragging us all with him is what caused all your colleagues to be risking their lives and simply missing the kids' birthdays...

The PM would be very, very stupid to exert any overt pressure. (That doesn't mean he won't.)

A word with someone - not the Attorney-General - who can have a word in the club... may not even need that. Just some speeches by Straw about how it is absolutely imperative not to give in to terror should push all the right buttons.

Hmm. To what end, anyway?

What would suit the PM best is if the accused refused to recognise the court or to enter a defence. Ah... er...
 
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