who is responsible for the London attacks?
- Thread starter mears
- Start date
what on earth has the george cross, the scottish thistle or the welsh whatever got to do with it. We are currently suffering from political correctness gone mad in this country. The BBC refuses to use the word 'terrorist' and rewrites the PM's speech because he uses that word. We will not solve this problem by going into denial about the causes.
The Guardian claims that 13% of muslims in this country sympathise with Al Qaeda. Why? I really wish someone could explain this to me.
I don't claim to have the answer but unless this is tackled then we are going to have big big problems. People should not have to worry about whether the bloke sitting beside them is a suicide bomber. It's also no good reading that these terrorists were seemingly nice guys. What kind of nice guy blows himself up and leaves his wife with an 8 month old baby. And the others couldnt have had much regard for their poor families. Think what hell they are going to go through.
gunner
The Guardian claims that 13% of muslims in this country sympathise with Al Qaeda. Why? I really wish someone could explain this to me.
I don't claim to have the answer but unless this is tackled then we are going to have big big problems. People should not have to worry about whether the bloke sitting beside them is a suicide bomber. It's also no good reading that these terrorists were seemingly nice guys. What kind of nice guy blows himself up and leaves his wife with an 8 month old baby. And the others couldnt have had much regard for their poor families. Think what hell they are going to go through.
gunner
elbows
Well-Known Member
gunneradt said:
I dont know why, I'll have to read the full guardian article about that to see more details. But I could speculate that the term 'sympathise' is quite broad and could therefore include people who have sympathy with one or more of the causes that Al Q & friends try to use to justify their actions. eg Palestine/Israel situation. Or foreign aggression against certain Muslim countries. On the otherhand if they support/sympathise with the tactics of the terrorists, thats a different kettle of fish.
I dont claim to have any magic answers either, but personally I would engage in a policy of isolation. Solve the issues that terrorists claim are the cause of their actions, remove the injustices that could gain them more support, and you cutoff a lot of their ability to get new recruits.
The reverse of this process is what people fear has happened when they talk of the Iraq war making terrorist attacks more likely. Its hardly just lefties that say this stuff, as some British Ambassador said that Iraq war had acted as a recruiting tool for terrorists.
The above is one element of a sucessful war on terror. It may be unpalatable to those who favour strong action, but its extremely necessary. Tough actions can be used to disrupt funding channels, weapons supply, organised networks, state sponsors etc. But if after a few years of a war on terror the terror seems worse, despite hitting terrorists hard on several fronts with force, its probably because the tough action has increased the potential number of humans willing to be terrorists.
As for the background of the homegrown terrorists, in many cases it seems eerily similar to what happens to dissafected/disconnected people of other cultures. Theres no shortage of non-muslim fundamentalists across the political spectrum, and of people who do not feel like they belong to mainstream elements of society, so join fringe groups rather than remain isolated. If a million people support a certain cause, you will find a very small percentage willing to go further and use violence of one kind or another. Clearly in the case of the current terror, the violence is so bad that many people arent generally inclined to compare these acts to less-extreme cases of people using violence for a cause, nor to violence that states commit. But if we really want to understand the terrorists so we can end the problem (even war hawks understand the concept of `know your enemy`), we need to use comparison as an analytical tool instead of the old 'we cannot understand this evil, its just too evil to comprehend'
Regarding numbers of people willing to commit-suicide in non-aggressive ways, yes I remember a BBC headline that more people commit suicide than are killed by war.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
I really think there's something fundamentally wrong about how young men are brought up and treated by society. It doesn't help to call them "evil".
Add the other factors and what might have been some other form of delinquancy or just plain suicide becomes something so much worse ...
These men actually believed in something - they aren't mindless NF football yobs ...
Add the other factors and what might have been some other form of delinquancy or just plain suicide becomes something so much worse ...
These men actually believed in something - they aren't mindless NF football yobs ...
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
gunneradt said:
but do we actually want to stop this happening again ?
All the military might of Israel, and the Americans in Iraq can't stop suicide bombers ... what next ? - a police state ?
OK maybe it's a wakeup call for the muslim community to admit to what they've been allowing to happen in their midst too ... everyone has to play their part ..
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
exosculate said:Its a term that is used - that has no meaning or quantifiablility whatsoever.
Read it as 'The bad guys'
In other words, it doesn't exist.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Ryazan said:
I wonder who made the name up?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
oi2002 said:
So now you're saying it's a jihad, are you?
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Johnny Canuck2 said:
Not in the sense that the CIA could be said to exist for sure.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
gunneradt said:
I think they are at an earlier stage than the "Christians" at putting the priests in their place ....
But there are so many other factors - there is genuine injustice in the muslim world, there does appear to be a capitalist / "Christian" "Crusade" going on ....
We have the potential of something brilliant in the UK a synthesis of influences we Brits have been absorbing for hundreds of years ... so much to lose ......
but the muslim community cannot afford to sit back and avoid some level of share in this. Interviews with muslims on tv this evening have confirmed that they believe this too - they believe their ideologies are to blame in some way. Something brilliant in the uk should not include innocent people being blown up on their way to work.
gunner
gunner
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
gunneradt said:
How does a community share blame for the covert actions of unrepresentative individuals?
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
exosculate said:
they are basically young men
Suicide rate of young men roughly equals road deaths (most of which caused by young men no doubt) 6,000 deaths ....
They had been - as has been shown, quite well behaved as children ...
The outcome was just more extreme ..
And yes, consider Columbine - which event seems more "mindless" in the end ?.
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
gunneradt said:
Yes - I'd agree with that , but we live in a wired world .. you can find plenty of hate of all kinds on the internet .... even "banned" stuff ... and that often appeals to the young ..
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
gunneradt said:
I have always been an outsider - never influenced by older males or peers, so I lack experience, but you're saying it's meetings "in the flesh" that make all the difference ?
So far as I could see, some of the influences were of young men visiting Pakistan and simply responding to the injustices ...
gentlegreen
I hummus, therefore I am ...
gunneradt said:
OK chuck out the hate-preachers...
I'm a 45 year old male suffering disillusion / anxiety / depression ... my "thing" is facing-up motorists on my mountain bike and various subtle forms of self-harm ...
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
exosculate said:
Usually, something either exists; or it doesn't.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Show me an electron.Johnny Canuck2 said:
Then stop making stupid points.
exosculate
a stagger with a beat
Bob_the_lost said:
Indeed. I think he needs a holiday.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Yeah, ragged edge of exaustion showing here...exosculate said:
They're now saying the explosive was, as I suspected, homemade. They're after a couple of guys who they think planned the attack and then skipped the country, one's an Egyptian Chemistry wonk. Does stink of AQ.
Juan is having a pop at Dubya for putting electioneering before the intelligence war. DC has repeatedly put US domestic politics and the GOP's interest before the GWOT, both battles of Fallujah being notable examples.
I'd not necessarily a causal connection here, the tube is an obvious target and not a particular smart one at that. Separately planned terrorist ops can look very similar, like battles they are shaped by terrain. Cruicially the plans on Noor Khan's laptop involved a wider ranging attack on The City as I recall.
Juan is having a pop at Dubya for putting electioneering before the intelligence war. DC has repeatedly put US domestic politics and the GOP's interest before the GWOT, both battles of Fallujah being notable examples.
I'd not necessarily a causal connection here, the tube is an obvious target and not a particular smart one at that. Separately planned terrorist ops can look very similar, like battles they are shaped by terrain. Cruicially the plans on Noor Khan's laptop involved a wider ranging attack on The City as I recall.
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