Which jab did you have - Astra Zeneca or Pfizer? And what side effects?

[gentlegreen]

Vaguely interesting article here which suggests age is a likely factor in whether you get side affects from the vaccine. Interestingly the younger you are perhaps the more likely you are to get a bit ill for a day or two. Obviously many other factors in play as ever.

Vaccine side effects: My experience of them and what they mean

Why do some people get side effects - and do they mean you have greater protection?

www.bbc.co.uk

I'm disappointed it doesn't confirm my eternal youthfulness
Well at least that reassures me that I probably didn't manage to catch the virus at work last summer.
And it's consistent with my experiences with viruses generally.
Presumably although I've always got off lightly with bronchial symptoms even with full-on flu, people like me might have copped it via the proverbial "cytokine storm" effect ...

 

[gentlegreen]

Can they be mixed?

There are ongoing trials to confirm that - not least because in future years, it will be more and more difficult to give you the same vaccine tech.

 

[LDC]

There are ongoing trials to confirm that - not least because in future years, it will be more and more difficult to give you the same vaccine tech.

A few of us (2 doctors and 2 other HCPs) were chatting yesterday while we had some quiet minutes from people not turning up for their jab, and we all agreed we'd be fine getting mixed vaccines. Not bothered at all tbh.

 

[planetgeli]

When I got my second Pfizer yesterday I was told "It's the same one as first time" but with the inference that this won't be guaranteed in the future, or at least I could have ended up with AZ this time.

I think they need to tell people this might be happening.

 

[Teaboy]

When I got my second Pfizer yesterday I was told "It's the same one as first time" but with the inference that this won't be guaranteed in the future, or at least I could have ended up with AZ this time.

I think they need to tell people this might be happening.

As far as I know the plan at this stage is to get everyone 2 jabs of the same vaccine wherever possible but where that is not possible mixing is deemed acceptable as its better than just a single jab. Anything beyond this will be part of a different plan / strategy which will need to develop as covid itself mutates and changes. I assume that should a booster be required in Autumn it will be based upon which vaccine is available and provides the best protection against the latest mutations.

Say if a strain developed that your Pfizer vaccine was ineffective against but the AZ one was would it be much use giving you a Pfizer booster just because that is what you had previously?

 

[gentlegreen]

Who knows which vaccine tech will "win" in the end - there are what four different techs in play now ?
MRNA / vector (chimp and human adenovirus) / inactivated virus / protein ...

 

[LDC]

When I got my second Pfizer yesterday I was told "It's the same one as first time" but with the inference that this won't be guaranteed in the future, or at least I could have ended up with AZ this time.

I think they need to tell people this might be happening.

No they really don't, it'd just cause confusion and unneeded stress. There's no plans for this to happen at all, and you either mis-read any inference with what they said or they're mistaken.

The vaccine program as it is now will look very different in a year. It's more likely we'll end up having a single dose that's altered annually for variants, and nobody will be calling it by it's brand/manufacturers name, it'll just be a 'covid vaccine'.

 

[prunus]

Say if a strain developed that your Pfizer vaccine was ineffective against but the AZ one was would it be much use giving you a Pfizer booster just because that is what you had previously?

It would be, yes, because by completing the Pfizer course you would get the full protection from that vaccine.

Whether a second jab with AZ (the first of an AZ course as it were) would be better in the scenario you posit isn’t possible to answer yet. In any case the current Pfizer and AZ vaccines deliver very nearly the same antigen (Pfizer one is more stable) so it’s unlikely that AZ would be significantly more effective against any escape mutants.

FWIW I’d have no issues with my second dose being AZ (Pfizer for first one).

 

[LDC]

People just need to stop over thinking it and get what's on offer. Watching a Youtube clip or reading a panic filled article in the press doesn't make anyone better qualified to decide what variety of jab they should be getting.

 

[8ball]

Can they be mixed?

They are very much not meant to be mixed (ie. one jab of one type then one of the other), but this is based on evidence of effectiveness (ie. testing not having been done on this). The arrangement at the centre I was at means you can just arrange people by what day they came in on, and next appointment is automatically set 12 weeks hence. Though there are also multiple documents of which vaccine was received, including on the card you get given.

 

[gentlegreen]

I'm still suspicious that the floppy AZ spikes mean I'm now immune to a whole bunch of impossible viruses

 

[8ball]

A few of us (2 doctors and 2 other HCPs) were chatting yesterday while we had some quiet minutes from people not turning up for their jab, and we all agreed we'd be fine getting mixed vaccines. Not bothered at all tbh.

I wouldn't be bothered about it personally. At least not with mixing AZ/Pfizer.

 

[planetgeli]

People just need to stop over thinking it and get what's on offer. Watching a Youtube clip or reading a panic filled article in the press doesn't make anyone better qualified to decide what variety of jab they should be getting.

Who has done this?
Christ you're a bit spikey at times Lynne.

 

[Teaboy]

It would be, yes, because by completing the Pfizer course you would get the full protection from that vaccine.

Whether a second jab with AZ (the first of an AZ course as it were) would be better in the scenario you posit isn’t possible to answer yet. In any case the current Pfizer and AZ vaccines deliver very nearly the same antigen (Pfizer one is more stable) so it’s unlikely that AZ would be significantly more effective against any escape mutants.

FWIW I’d have no issues with my second dose being AZ (Pfizer for first one).

A bit of a misunderstanding I think, my scenario was imagining what might happen after the 2 jabs had been given. I was thinking ahead to further boosters that may be required in the future.

 

[LDC]

Who has done this?
Christ you're a bit spikey at times Lynne.

Sorry, not aimed at you. It's just a bit frustrating sometimes with all the concern around the vaccines, people just being irrational and panicky on all sorts of fronts, and I think lots of this kind of speculation can just fuel peoples anxiety. A bit spikey though, thanks, that's the nicest thing someone's said to me this year! (I'd like to think I'm slightly nicer in real life! )

 

[kropotkin]

Just had my second dose of Pfizer. First one I got a sore arm, we'll see what this one results in! Expecting to get sick for a day.
I'm on a day of leave, but went straight from the vaccine to cover a shift as a mate had to go home and isolate... Feel OK so far.

In the interests of science : I had 24hrs of gritty eyes and a less achy arm than last time. May have felt slightly under the weather but difficult to tell. Went riding yesterday and today so can't have been that bad

 

[Sue]

People just need to stop over thinking it and get what's on offer. Watching a Youtube clip or reading a panic filled article in the press doesn't make anyone better qualified to decide what variety of jab they should be getting.

Well quite. This is why we have experts.

 

[Treacle Toes]

The bad press for AZ is working...more than one patient has told me they don't want it and others have deliberately asked me which one I've had and whether or not I felt safe having the AZ one.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The bad press for AZ is working...more than one patient has told me they don't want it and others have deliberately asked me which one I've had and whether or not I felt safe having the AZ one.

Yeah, my SiL mentioned that 'no shows' have been up by about 5 fold this week, at her NHS vaccination centre, she's no idea how many have cancelled before the day.

Article from the Pulse covering it...

Exclusive GPs leading vaccination sites have told Pulse that decisions by some European countries to temporarily suspend the AstraZeneca vaccine is already leading to cancelled appointments and worried patients.

Several GPs said people had not attended their vaccine slot because of news stories about blood clots, with practices also fielding a large number of queries.

They raised concerns that despite clear reassurances from UK regulators and the World Health Organization, the news was having a negative impact on what had been a very successful vaccine campaign to date.

https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/cardiovascular/gps-dealing-with-fallout-from-suspension-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-in-europe/

 

[danny la rouge]

The bad press for AZ is working...more than one patient has told me they don't want it and others have deliberately asked me which one I've had and whether or not I felt safe having the AZ one.

The reporting of it has been utterly irresponsible in my view. Literally death causing.

I know these points have been made but I’m angry so I’ll make them again:


After 10 million doses, Astra Zeneca have reported 28 cases of blood clots.

Pfizer: 11 million doses, 25 cases.


Why is one suspended & not the other?

Why are reports even giving credence to the suspicion of causation? I'm hearing 30 or 40 people have had their dishwasher break down after having the AstraZeneca vaccine.

My grandad died suddenly one Christmas morning after drinking black tea.

 

[planetgeli]

Having felt nothing from my first dose (Pf) jabbed second dose at about 5.40 last night. Home, fine. 9.30 started yawning massively, don't even remember my head hitting the pillow.

Achy arm meant no sleep on that side but slept heavily until 6.30 when awoke with massive headache. Paracetamol = headache gone. Definitely feel wasted, tired, couldn't even get words out this morning. Which made google classroom fun for a couple of hours.

I actually like feeling wasted.

 

[2hats]

Why is one suspended & not the other?

At the risk of repeating myself, in Germany they had seen seven incidences of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis in ~1.6 million vaccinees. This is several times the general population background rate, hence the precautionary suspension. The general thromboembolic rate for all approved vaccines is running lower than that in the general population(s) so no cause to pause for that class of event alone.

 

[Wilf]

Vaguely interesting article here which suggests age is a likely factor in whether you get side affects from the vaccine. Interestingly the younger you are perhaps the more likely you are to get a bit ill for a day or two. Obviously many other factors in play as ever.

Vaccine side effects: My experience of them and what they mean

Why do some people get side effects - and do they mean you have greater protection?

www.bbc.co.uk

I had 'just the right amount of side effects' to convince me the virus was working (mild aches, flu-like feeling 'off'). Enough to convince me there was an immune response, but not too intense or long lasting. I did though have a worry for older people or others who haven't had any of those symptoms. That piece does a good job of reassuring those people it is still working.

 

[planetgeli]

Vaguely interesting article here which suggests age is a likely factor in whether you get side affects from the vaccine. Interestingly the younger you are perhaps the more likely you are to get a bit ill for a day or two. Obviously many other factors in play as ever.

Vaccine side effects: My experience of them and what they mean

Why do some people get side effects - and do they mean you have greater protection?

www.bbc.co.uk

Hadn't seen that article but this is exactly what I think I am noticing. Interesting obviously because it reverses the likely scenarios of Covid for age.

 

[planetgeli]

Actually that article is basically about the good Inside Health programme on Radio 4 last night that I alerted people to on this thread while it was playing. Probably still available on BBC Sounds or whatever annoying title they give it.

 

[danny la rouge]

At the risk of repeating myself, in Germany they had seen seven incidences of cerebral venous sinus thrombosis in ~1.6 million vaccinees. This is several times the general population background rate, hence the precautionary suspension. The general thromboembolic rate for all approved vaccines is running lower than that in the general population(s) so no cause to pause for that class of event alone.

I’m sorry, that’s too technical for me. I bow to those with specialist knowledge.

 

[Wilf]

People just need to stop over thinking it and get what's on offer. Watching a Youtube clip or reading a panic filled article in the press doesn't make anyone better qualified to decide what variety of jab they should be getting.

I agree with you about this on a number of different levels. Firstly, we need to get as many people vaccinated as possible. Secondly, all the major vaccines seem to be working effectively and safely. And finally, there isn't really an opportunity in current circumstances for people to pick and choose or have individual discussions as which one is best for them. As you say, get what's on offer.

The only thing is that there's a generic lack of trust in authorities, a lack of confidence in governments, a feeling that you might as well google something as ask an expert. Much of that is bad and feeds conspiracy theories. Scumbags and opportunists will step into the breach. But way short of that kind of stuff I think there's a natural twitchiness in the population and when you get a build up of stories about the AZ vaccine, people may have rational, self interested questions and no obvious place to get an answer. Don't get me wrong, I think the rational self interested person should still get whichever vaccine is offered. I'm not really a fan of Ulrich Beck, but some of his Risk Society stuff gets into the failure of institutions and people having to fall back on their own 'reflexivity' when it comes to things like vaccines.

 

[Riklet]

Spain has paused AZ vaccine due to 1 sudden death of a healthy teacher in Marbella and a few other unusual thrombosis cases.

I'd take the vaccine any day, clearly it's remarkably safe, but you can see why there's worry - when there's potentially a recurring pattern, albeit affecting a tiny number of people.

 

[gentlegreen]

Arse. I hope it turns out to be OK.
Not worried about myself because I'm unusually healthy, but we need to get on top of this.

 

[Wilf]

Spain has paused AZ vaccine due to 1 sudden death of a healthy teacher in Marbella and a few other unusual thrombosis cases.

I'd take the vaccine any day, clearly it's remarkably safe, but you can see why there's worry - when there's potentially a recurring pattern, albeit affecting a tiny number of people.

I haven't seen the figures in terms of what % of cases are reporting these blood clots, but it's edging in the direction of becoming a legitimate concern. If we weren't in the middle of a pandemic a 'pause' might well be the right response. But as we are... dunno. We could soon be at a point where the news stories will be driving the agenda. We're exactly at the point where a cool headed non partisan regulator needs to make a definitive announcement. Trouble is, there isn't any definitive evidence, either way afaik and we don't listen to what the regulators say anyway. Having said all that, I'll still be having the AZ 2nd dose in May.