where is it unreasonable to fly to?

[CyberRose]

Actually, I do think the environment is important, but yes, my "own time and money" takes preference where the two compete. I also think that West Ham being forced to pay Sheff Utd £30m-£50m compensation is also more important than any carbon footprint!

 

[bluestreak]

*shakes fist*

see you in court sunshine!

 

[Kanda]

whereas kanda thinks it's unreasonable to expect him not to fly and visit his parents in australia differently.

I'd love to go by land but I'd never get that amount of time off work!

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

So, after a hard year working, I could go and rest on this beach or fight for a place on the beach above.

Simple choice really. Think I've decided I prefer being selfish

 

[CyberRose]

Actually, while we're on the subject of the environment, and considering I know not a lot about it, whatever happened to that hole in the ozone layer? That was all the rage in the 80s when I was growing up, now I never hear anything about it! Is it still there?

 

[mauvais]

The back garden, and under the sea.

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Actually, while we're on the subject of the environment, and considering I know not a lot about it, whatever happened to that hole in the ozone layer? That was all the rage in the 80s when I was growing up, now I never hear anything about it! Is it still there?

It's been overtaken by "how big is your carbon footprint?"

 

[robotsimon]

So, after a hard year working, I could go and rest on this beach or fight for a place on the beach above.

Simple choice really. Think I've decided I prefer being selfish

Well, quite, because those are the only two beaches on earth.

 

[Blagsta]

Actually, while we're on the subject of the environment, and considering I know not a lot about it, whatever happened to that hole in the ozone layer? That was all the rage in the 80s when I was growing up, now I never hear anything about it! Is it still there?

Yes it's still there.

 

[bluestreak]

I'd love to go by land but I'd never get that amount of time off work!

heh...

*is glad he doesn't have parents in australia*

i think part of my issue is that i like travelling by train, and road trips, and buses and whatnot. if i was going somewhere in europe it would be train every time if possible. or my idea of a holiday is just to go wandering with no real destination in mind. perhaps that sort of attitude makes it easier to be a bit meh about flying.

 

[baldrick]

i pretty much agree with the editor's line on this.

anywhere in the uk and anywhere in europe that can be reached by a day's journey.

also, flying pretty much anywhere on business is fairly unacceptable, where alternatives exist.

eta - i have flown a lot on holiday, though the last time was 5 years ago. i can't afford transatlantic plane tickets these days, even if i wanted to.

 

[bluestreak]

Yes it's still there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_depletion

Image of the largest Antarctic ozone hole ever recorded (September 2006).

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Well, quite, because those are the only two beaches on earth.

I'm just giving an example of an English beach vs a Malaysian beach

 

[baldrick]

I'm just giving an example of an English beach vs a Malaysian beach

1/10

there are some gorgeous beaches in the UK

 

[jæd]

there are some gorgeous beaches in the UK

Yep, but those beaches aren't going to be bathed in sunshine when I've got time to go on holiday... (And imagine if everyone wanted to go to the same beaches at the same time...)

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

i pretty much agree with the editor's line on this.

anywhere in the uk and anywhere in europe that can be reached by a day's journey.

also, flying pretty much anywhere on business is fairly unacceptable, where alternatives exist.

eta - i have flown a lot on holiday, though the last time was 5 years ago. i can't afford transatlantic plane tickets these days, even if i wanted to.

In fact, I recently saw a report that stated that ONLY 4% of travellers are responsible for 25% of journeys apparently. This 4% are largely business travellers.

As far as I'm concerned, it's the business travellers who should be made to feel bad. Travelling + expenses and getting to go abroad at the same time and moaning "it's business"

 

[spanglechick]

So, after a hard year working, I could go and rest on this beach or fight for a place on the beach above.

Simple choice really. Think I've decided I prefer being selfish

alternatively:

in the UK. and a clean, green conscience.

 

[Gromit]

I think we might as well make the most out of long distance air travel while we can.
When the fosil fuels run out we may have hydrogen powered cars etc. but jet travel will be history.

Instead of worrying about air travel we should be concentrating on energy effiecency in homes. Every single house should have solar panels and wind generators as standard if you ask me and that would do far more than banning air travel ever will.

 

[baldrick]

In fact, I recently saw a report that stated that ONLY 4% of travellers are responsible for 25% of journeys apparently. This 4% are largely business travellers.

i love it when my prejudices turn out to be reasonable

 

[Gromit]

For me, it's anywhere in mainland UK.

Do internal flights use jets?

If its a propeler engine is it any different to a car or train except for the fact it distance traveled is shorter as you can travel as the crow flies.

 

[spanglechick]

I think we might as well make the most out of long distance air travel while we can.
When the fosil fuels run out we may have hydrogen powered cars etc. but jet travel will be history.

That's like saying - there's going to be a drought, so everyone should use hosepipes while they still can. Or - there's a famine coming - quick, cook a slap up meal.

When shortage is on the horizon, most people understand the need to ration.

 

[CyberRose]

That's like saying - there's going to be a drought, so everyone should use hosepipes while they still can. Or - there's a famine coming - quick, cook a slap up meal.

Lol! The thing is, after hearing the news, that's probably what most people would do!

 

[jæd]

As far as I'm concerned, it's the business travellers who should be made to feel bad. Travelling + expenses and getting to go abroad at the same time and moaning "it's business"

Dunno about you but I've never enjoyed travelling on business, and neither does anyone I know who does it regularly... And yep, internally in our company we have *lots* of international conference calls.

But there are still things which *have* to be done face-to-face...

 

[robotsimon]

I'm afraid all this thread has done has been to make me want a holiday . . . .

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

alternatively:

in the UK. and a clean, green conscience.

Nice. What's the water temperature?

 

[Minnie_the_Minx]

Dunno about you but I've never enjoyed travelling on business, and neither does anyone I know who does it regularly... And yep, internally in our company we have *lots* of international conference calls.

But there are still things which *have* to be done face-to-face...

so you don't emjoy going business class instead of cattle class? You don't enjoy putting in for all your expenses?

 

[Hollis]

the recent bickering about flying has led me to this question:

where is it unreasonable, in your OPINION, to fly?

in my lifetime i've flown to four seperate places - austria on holiday, seattle working, new york on holiday, and ireland for a wedding.

i don't feel that any of the first three are unjustified. the first was our first ever proper family holiday and the first time i'd been on a plane. i was 17. the seattle job couldn't have been done anywhere else, new york i was out there staying with a friend. i don't think that i have anything to answer for there. however, i did feel weird morally about flying to ireland. however when it came down to it, the last time i went to ireland we drove and added basically a day each side to the journey. the flights were cheaper than the petrol costs too, let alone an extra two days off work. but still, the west coast of ireland is still fairly close in this day and age.

now, it would be nice if this couldn't turn into a bunfight - we all ahve differing moral standards and reasons for flying. i just want to know where your line is. we'll leave the judgements and wild allegations for another day, perhaps?

I think its simplistic to single out particular groups of journey's or types of traveller as being bad and others okay.

Personally I'd take the perspecive of your overall carbon impact.

Just saying that a long haul flight is okay because there's no other way of getting there ignores the important question of why you're going their in the first place. Is it really necessary? Remember that long haul travel is a real privilege available only in the last 30 years.

Similarly if I don't go on any long haul flights then maybe I would take a flight to Italy, for example.

This is all in theory, of course.

 

[Gromit]

Lol! The thing is, after hearing the news, that's probably what most people would do!

Agreed. How many rushes for milk and bread do the supermarkets get each year after various rumours of shortages or some crisis?
If you don't grab it someone else will. Better they go without than you go without etc.

Its human nature and no use tying to pretend otherwise.

 

[Kanda]

so you don't emjoy going business class instead of cattle class? You don't enjoy putting in for all your expenses?

I've flown probably about 50-60 times for Business, mainly to west or eastern africa. I've NEVER been in business class!!!

I was installing bespoke electoral equipment and software that had no local knowledge that was able to do it either so I HAD to fly and do the job. (just in case you question that )

What on earth makes you think that all business travel is done in business class??

Oh, and I hated business travel too. It's shit getting stuck in hotels and planes, it's not a perk at all. It's boring as hell most of the time.

 

[jæd]

so you don't emjoy going business class instead of cattle class?

Not really. I don't enjoy flying for the sake of it. Its usually 8 hours + of being in a box in the sky with dull food. And then there's the fun of jet lag.

You don't enjoy putting in for all your expenses?

Nope... I've got better things to do than admin work, and then having to chase up expenses...