What stupid shit has Trump done today?
- Thread starter Yossarian
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CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
On Politico Trump Is Winning the Immigration Debate
Demographic reality is parts of the US are becoming increasingly Latino and Anglo folk feel they are losing control. Americans who have never met a migrant often fixate on this even more. America is changing and conservatives are by definition people who don't like change. Running towards that inevitable future before it had actually happened probably was a Dem error. Descending the elevator and doubting the existence of a good Mexican was a tactical success but probably is a GOP error in the longer term.
Trump was a nostalgia candidate. A rosy view of the past returning sells easily. Selling an obviously difficult future is a tougher pitch. A lot of Dems are at heart conservatives not liberals. A lot voted for Reagan. Trump's cunningly ambiguous schtick if you bothered to listen was refried Reaganism as much as anything. He was always for free trade just on his terms. He would make America tired of winning. Bellicose isolationism is after all an old American and rather war loving tradition.
As a pretty scarily hawkish President unsurprisingly all he loses is a few Alt-Right Putin fanciers. That won't change if he starts a big shooting war in Korea and/or Iran. When Reagan's NAFTA turns out to be trickier than a stroke of a pen very few people care. Even The Wall not appearing can be blamed on Congress. A lot of Trump voters expressed some doubt about his ability to change things or indeed be a competent President. As such they're rather forgiving.
And conservatives already have some wins. Widely hated tree hugger measures are getting trashed. The Trump train will wreck Obamacare and they want that gone even if it hurts them. Most importantly he's going to pack the Supreme Court. That'll really fuck the liberal agenda for decades. Hopey changey things are genuinely being slung into reverse. Trump's lack of dignity, an asset as a candidate, may be his real Achilles heel as President. That hurts enthusiasm for him with conservatives.
Arguably Trump's main plank and something he has quite a lot of support on. Just look at the polling on the Muslim Ban above. That has broad cross party appeal. It may be shit for brains policy but there it is. ICE scooping up illegals all over the country is popular as well. Visceral issues do get voters out and it would be stupid to insist they don't or there are no problems associated with migration.
Demographic reality is parts of the US are becoming increasingly Latino and Anglo folk feel they are losing control. Americans who have never met a migrant often fixate on this even more. America is changing and conservatives are by definition people who don't like change. Running towards that inevitable future before it had actually happened probably was a Dem error. Descending the elevator and doubting the existence of a good Mexican was a tactical success but probably is a GOP error in the longer term.
Trump was a nostalgia candidate. A rosy view of the past returning sells easily. Selling an obviously difficult future is a tougher pitch. A lot of Dems are at heart conservatives not liberals. A lot voted for Reagan. Trump's cunningly ambiguous schtick if you bothered to listen was refried Reaganism as much as anything. He was always for free trade just on his terms. He would make America tired of winning. Bellicose isolationism is after all an old American and rather war loving tradition.
As a pretty scarily hawkish President unsurprisingly all he loses is a few Alt-Right Putin fanciers. That won't change if he starts a big shooting war in Korea and/or Iran. When Reagan's NAFTA turns out to be trickier than a stroke of a pen very few people care. Even The Wall not appearing can be blamed on Congress. A lot of Trump voters expressed some doubt about his ability to change things or indeed be a competent President. As such they're rather forgiving.
And conservatives already have some wins. Widely hated tree hugger measures are getting trashed. The Trump train will wreck Obamacare and they want that gone even if it hurts them. Most importantly he's going to pack the Supreme Court. That'll really fuck the liberal agenda for decades. Hopey changey things are genuinely being slung into reverse. Trump's lack of dignity, an asset as a candidate, may be his real Achilles heel as President. That hurts enthusiasm for him with conservatives.
No, his supporters, the "white working class" are the ones being played.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
I wonder if that was in Miller's script?
On The Hill Travel ban architect writing Trump Poland speech: report
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You, and the other one, have repeatedly insisted that it isn't the white working class who are his supporters and point to the higher end income profile of his voting base. Which is it?
The higher income groups support him because they will benefit from the tax cuts/deregulation. Much of the working class was suckered into supporting him and will be severely hurt by his and Rebub policies, but those fools will still support him.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Oh it's both then. How handy. But what about those income profiles of trump voters that cri kept posting - are they wrong then?
I think it is true that the average Trump voter has a higher income than the average Hillary voter. But the lower income Trump voters gave him his victory. "There's a sucker born every minute." - P. T. Barnum
(almost certainly not P.T Barnum)
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
The mistake US liberals make with electoral politics is assuming voter choices involve much rational thought. It's mostly impulse followed, sometimes, by logical justification. Which is how the brain works but isn't the 17th century model most liberals carry around. It really doesn't matter if you are some Redneck soaked in strange readings of Revelation or a Nuclear Physics PHD. Sure once policy craps all over them they may not like it but then it's too late and they'll often blame something else entirely.
People will repeatedly vote for very bad policy that hurts them and implausible politicians who will likely never deliver. It just has to tickle their fancy. There really aren't many swing voters in the US and they tend to be "low information" folks. Mobilisation is the key thing. Getting elected is really quite akin to selling soap powder or a real estate brand. That is an art of electric words that Trump has a knack for particular when degrading opponents. Low energy, little, lying, crooked, he's got a bully's gift for body slamming epithets. He's good at sowing discord in the enemy camp. Policy, meh, he'll just wing that for tonight's crowd. Trump is a human muck spreader happy to be a centre of chaos greedily hogging the spotlight.
Trouble is governing the US isn't like that. It gets really technocratic. Well beyond even running a multi-national like Exxon Mobile. You need well worked out policy and a deliberative process informed by a lot of experience. The US system is set up to impede change plus having one party that basically thinks government is the problem. If a President doesn't come with areas of consensus on The Hill they won't get much done no matter how hopey changey they have promised to be. They have to cope with a constraining legacy accrued over decades in foreign policy. Last three Presidents were all under qualified. Each one more so than the last. Pretty good at running but shite at governing. Trump is just the extreme example of effective sales bullshit coming into contact with the reality of office.
People will repeatedly vote for very bad policy that hurts them and implausible politicians who will likely never deliver. It just has to tickle their fancy. There really aren't many swing voters in the US and they tend to be "low information" folks. Mobilisation is the key thing. Getting elected is really quite akin to selling soap powder or a real estate brand. That is an art of electric words that Trump has a knack for particular when degrading opponents. Low energy, little, lying, crooked, he's got a bully's gift for body slamming epithets. He's good at sowing discord in the enemy camp. Policy, meh, he'll just wing that for tonight's crowd. Trump is a human muck spreader happy to be a centre of chaos greedily hogging the spotlight.
Trouble is governing the US isn't like that. It gets really technocratic. Well beyond even running a multi-national like Exxon Mobile. You need well worked out policy and a deliberative process informed by a lot of experience. The US system is set up to impede change plus having one party that basically thinks government is the problem. If a President doesn't come with areas of consensus on The Hill they won't get much done no matter how hopey changey they have promised to be. They have to cope with a constraining legacy accrued over decades in foreign policy. Last three Presidents were all under qualified. Each one more so than the last. Pretty good at running but shite at governing. Trump is just the extreme example of effective sales bullshit coming into contact with the reality of office.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
On Bloomberg EU, Japan Leaders Hail Free-Trade Pact in Riposte to Trump
The video is worth listening to. Trump dumping TPP may have precipitated this deal as it left a big hole in some Asian countries trade strategy. This is only a unexpectedly quick first step after four years of haggling with years to follow working out the details.
It's a funny old world. Donald Trump: making globalisation great again???
I didn't realise the Japanese were so into cheese.
The video is worth listening to. Trump dumping TPP may have precipitated this deal as it left a big hole in some Asian countries trade strategy. This is only a unexpectedly quick first step after four years of haggling with years to follow working out the details.
It's a funny old world. Donald Trump: making globalisation great again???
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
On Bloomberg These U.S. States Still Haven’t Fully Recovered From Recession
Of course cities thriving off a knowledge economy isn't going to make left behind rural areas feel any better. Rather the reverse as a lot of the young folk are going to flit to where there are better prospects as highly mobile Americans always have across their open state borders.
Note the mining and other "commodity-based activities" a big thing for Trump.
Of course cities thriving off a knowledge economy isn't going to make left behind rural areas feel any better. Rather the reverse as a lot of the young folk are going to flit to where there are better prospects as highly mobile Americans always have across their open state borders.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
On CNBC Donald Trump's speech in Warsaw, Poland ahead of G-20 summit
"We are working with Poland in response to Russia's actions and destabilising behaviour."
Quite as confrontational as anything Clinton might have said. Trump'll be having an interesting chat with Putin I think.
He was also talking about reciprocal trade relationships with Poland which may raise some eyebrows with Brussels. The Trump team still don't seem to get that trade deals with EU members are not a matter of state on state haggling.
"We are working with Poland in response to Russia's actions and destabilising behaviour."
Quite as confrontational as anything Clinton might have said. Trump'll be having an interesting chat with Putin I think.
He was also talking about reciprocal trade relationships with Poland which may raise some eyebrows with Brussels. The Trump team still don't seem to get that trade deals with EU members are not a matter of state on state haggling.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
Got to say I think it's 2 groups who support Trump also. Rich people who know the score and will really benefit from the tax cuts and deregulation and easily played angry blue collar voters in the rust belt who'll get less than fuck all but will probably have their anger redirected in the wrong direction when the benefits they were promised don't turn up.
CrabbedOne
Walking sideways snippily
It's not like it's East LA. I think he can read a crowd. Like anyone was likely to shoot him at a well organised right wing party rally in Poland. He gave them what they wanted. After him leaning into the old Russki enemy on their behalf he's far safer there than when golfing.
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
Trump continues to be vague about Russia, but Tillerson offers specifics on cooperation
So the only two Americans who are going to be the Putin meeting are Tillerson and Trump. One received the order of Friendship from the Russian government, and the other allegedly received a golden shower from Russian prostitutes.
So the only two Americans who are going to be the Putin meeting are Tillerson and Trump. One received the order of Friendship from the Russian government, and the other allegedly received a golden shower from Russian prostitutes.
CRI
Registered Chooser
Well yes. As you say, the rich will back whoever they think will keep them rich and make them richer.
As I've said before, white blue collar workers fled the Democratic party in droves in the 1960's, just as the party began to back the civil rights movement and rights for women. They would have voted GOP regardless of who was on the ticket, but were and are more enthusiastic for Trump because they like his policies and he's much more open about the white supremacist, patriarchal basis of for them. All the folks mewling about how said it is that they've voted against their own interests clearly has no idea what their actual interests are. They see keeping women and minorities "in their place" as pretty key to maintaining, regaining or improving their own status and traditional place.
If the Democrats don't pledge this, they ain't gonna switch. Insisting this cohort be on board if the party is to win in future (coming mainly from the self-styled left in and outwith the party) is bizarre and only pisses off the minorities and women who are the backbone of the Democratic party. But, the same folk don't seem that bothered about abortion rights, and often dismiss civil rights as "identity politics," so maybe they are prepared to "negotiate."
CRI
Registered Chooser
Rather looks that way. And it's a testament to just how far down the shitter we've gone when this only raises a few eyebrows and nowt more.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
It's terrible that the rich and powerful have taken just anger about their shenanigans and misdirected it back upon their victims. Trump and Brexit. What a shit show.Here is a Doctor Who quote from 1997
I saw it as a gif on fb, but can't seem to find it
bimble
floofy
The Remaking of Donald Trump
An interesting article this. Showing that back in his Apprentice days Trump was massively popular with black and hispanic viewers, much more so than with the white audience, such that his show was where advertisers went to reach those demographics.
It argues that he then made a conscious calculated decision to appeal to a new audience (grassroots conservatives traditional republican voters) by going for the Birther attack on Obama.
An interesting article this. Showing that back in his Apprentice days Trump was massively popular with black and hispanic viewers, much more so than with the white audience, such that his show was where advertisers went to reach those demographics.
It argues that he then made a conscious calculated decision to appeal to a new audience (grassroots conservatives traditional republican voters) by going for the Birther attack on Obama.
In that case why did they have screens? Yes, it's a supportive crowd but one lone nutjob is all it takes. Well, one lone nutjob that isn't Trump, I mean.
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