What Now for the BNP?

[Joe Reilly]

UAF have begun their 'Griffin Must Go' campaign up in Manchester.

Funny how a political slogan from an external left-wing opponent whose aim is to destroy the BNP seems to share its DNA and objectives with a protracted internal campaign by right-wing supporters to save the BNP.

Remember the scene from the Oliver Stone film JKF, where we discover that the pro and anti- Castro groups were sharing an office?

Just saying like...

 

[malatesta32]

Go where? Do they want him repatriated to Wales?

he is going mate! he'll be off to croatia next year to his retirment home!

 

[frogwoman]

But the left are present on these estates: from monday to friday 10.00 to 4.30 at least; they are the probation officers, the social workers, housing officers and social security staff, the teachers and truancy officers, the myriad faces of kid glove repression and panotopic control of the working class.
on Friday afternoon they drive away from the estates to their edgy flats in their vibrant inner city areas, recently peppered with thrilling new bistros and art centres.
on Saturday afternoons they come back, for an hour or two, hawking socialist worker and the socialist, its headlines declaring; "YOUR sacrifice, YOUR suffering, YOUR blood, will bring US Victory!"

with respect i don't think that's entirely true, i don't think you can say teachers, DWP staff etc aren't working class (although frequently they come from middle class backgrounds) but they're seeing attacks on pay and conditions etc same as everyone else, and what about teaching assistants and the like? i agree they often come from a relatively privileged position but to say they're not working class at all?

i agree with some of what you're saying, but in my SP branch we've got healthcare workers, council workers, builders, etc, no teachers or anything like that. and most of the people i know would despise gentrification and people who behaved in the way you described.

 

[DaveCinzano]

he is going mate! he'll be off to croatia next year to his retirment home!

A lot of barns needing refurbishment out that way are there?

 

[bignose1]

he is going mate! he'll be off to croatia next year to his retirment home!

Dubrov-nick

 

[bignose1]

A lot of barns needing refurbishment out that way are there?

Fuck if its like his sprawl in Normandy circa mid 80's then that'll be mental...we had a poke round there and quite honestly it was like the Emmerdale farm set.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I hope you were wearing respirators!

 

[audiotech]

Quite, I heard the place was full of asbestos roofing sheets, with YNF members used to strip, then move it and no protective gear provided?

 

[The39thStep]

They had a Gtr Manc conference last weekend. Now this weekend they're going leafleting in Newton Heath!

which is the ward that the BNP had their lowest vote in the last elections

 

[frogwoman]

everyone's got to feel useful i guess!

 

[Joe Reilly]

which is the ward that the BNP had their lowest vote in the last elections

Maybe so, but it's still a step up from the ANL strategy of targetting predominately Asian estates.

 

[Red Storm]

I'd be interested to know why they've picked Newton Heath.

Still not sure why they've started two years early. But here's why they've picked this weekend:

North West UAF has called two Days Of Action this weekend, campaigning to get fascist Nick Griffin out of the European Parliament, and coinciding With Holocaust Memorial Day:

I wasn't going to put the email up on here but it looks like it's already on Redwatch

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

But the left are present on these estates: from monday to friday 10.00 to 4.30 at least; they are the probation officers, the social workers, housing officers and social security staff, the teachers and truancy officers, the myriad faces of kid glove repression and panotopic control of the working class.
on Friday afternoon they drive away from the estates to their edgy flats in their vibrant inner city areas, recently peppered with thrilling new bistros and art centres.
on Saturday afternoons they come back, for an hour or two, hawking socialist worker and the socialist, its headlines declaring; "YOUR sacrifice, YOUR suffering, YOUR blood, will bring US Victory!"

Have you finally gone mad? You're a canny fella but really

I don't know any people in those occupations who are SWP members, or who live in edgy "cool" flats in vibrant areas - are you really saying housing officers and DWP workers are either the forces of repression or generally "lefties"? How many working class people are we going to add to the shit list? It used to just be bailiffs, screws, and coppers!

 

[The39thStep]

Have you finally gone mad? You're a canny fella but really

I don't know any people in those occupations who are SWP members, or who live in edgy "cool" flats in vibrant areas - are you really saying housing officers and DWP workers are either the forces of repression or generally "lefties"? How many working class people are we going to add to the shit list? It used to just be bailiffs, screws, and coppers!

I think he has overdosed on Foucault

 

[The39thStep]

I'd be interested to know why they've picked Newton Heath.

Still not sure why they've started two years early. But here's why they've picked this weekend:

I wasn't going to put the email up on here but it looks like it's already on Redwatch

Best chance is to call for a vote for UKIP in the North West.

 

[malatesta32]

rather amusing snippet:
http://twitpic.com/8bo3g2
from us:
'Kieran Trent, the much vaunted rising star of the BNP’s youth wing, has had a terrible week. Little Twunt has been having an affair with Cheryl ‘Well’ Dunn and was on the receiving end of a pasting from her ex, who is now in prison. Chezzer’s ex is a fairly ‘colourful’ (though mostly white!) character called Peter King who she claims was abusive towards her and her kids as well as a previous partner. Twunt has also been pictured giving ‘a Roman salute’ – which his supporters have claimed is a photo-shopped Searchlight plot. Twunt is depicted looking straight at the camera with his right arm fully outstretched in the classic Hitler pose. No amount of ‘it must have been taken out of context’ justifies this. He’s a Nazi! He has also been depicted in front of ‘White Pride’ and loyalist flags and also with BNP ‘defector’ Chris Beverley holding English Democrat propaganda. Is he a little confused? There is a particularly scabrous slanging match on VNN UK Nazi forum between Cheryl and her detractors which is most amusing. '

 

[Red Storm]

Best chance is to call for a vote for UKIP in the North West.

Weren't the Greens harping about No2EU stealing votes from them and thus allowing the BNP to just pip them to the seat?

 

[The Black Hand]

To paraphrase Joe's comment earlier "they just aren't on the landings, but the far-right are".

But they are incoherent idiots with no ability. You and Joe are overplaying, 'bigging up', the far right, and playing down the left (and anarchist) working class traditions. Come along to the Durham Miners Gala in July and amongst the 100k present try to find some far right (you maybe able to find a couple btw).

 

[The Black Hand]

I don't think you can denounce the IWCA as 'ultra-left'. Furthermore, considering how small they were they managed to achieve results in local elections which would make the trotskyist left have a wet dream. Most on the far left either ignored the IWCA's results or said they weren't relevant because they wasn't a socialist vote.

I'm just waiting for a new Black Panther Party of Self Defence (with every reference to black changed to working class, except in the name).

There have been others who have achieved those results, mainly community groups or independents who put work in (not related to the IWCA). The IWCA are ultra left 'cos all else has failed' and they go it alone (for 20 years in 3 areas. the 3 they started in), that is ultra left by definition.

 

[The Black Hand]

why didn't we listen to you 20 years ago?

You've cut your own path, well done. I'm just continuing to point out the flaws in my usual manner
My mantra is that class consciousness is constructed on the battleground of class struggle - & not localised pure political groups. Not enough people/groups have been encouraging and/or participating in class struggle and therefore we shouldn't be surprised there is fragmentation. The solution IS unity in practice across the board, not some pseudo ideal type working class localised politics (which is just another form of fragmentation).

 

[Pickman's model]

And how are you helping this manifest itself in your neck of the woods?

 

[Pickman's model]

But they are incoherent idiots with no ability. You and Joe are overplaying, 'bigging up', the far right, and playing down the left (and anarchist) working class traditions. Come along to the Durham Miners Gala in July and amongst the 100k present try to find some far right (you maybe able to find a couple btw).

to paraphrase stalin, how many divisions does tradition have?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

which is the ward that the BNP had their lowest vote in the last elections

Not counting the vast majority of wards in which they didn't stand at all, but you are right that it is an odd choice on the face of it.

 

[Casually Red]

Quite, I heard the place was full of asbestos roofing sheets, with YNF members used to strip, then move it and no protective gear provided?

fucking excellent . Wish id thought of that .

 

[Pickman's model]

with respect i don't think that's entirely true, i don't think you can say teachers, DWP staff etc aren't working class (although frequently they come from middle class backgrounds) but they're seeing attacks on pay and conditions etc same as everyone else, and what about teaching assistants and the like? i agree they often come from a relatively privileged position but to say they're not working class at all?

i agree with some of what you're saying, but in my SP branch we've got healthcare workers, council workers, builders, etc, no teachers or anything like that. and most of the people i know would despise gentrification and people who behaved in the way you described.

I'd hope all the people you know would despise gentrification

 

[Casually Red]

jesus christ i almost feel sorry for those young NF chaps . Having to strip Griffins asbestos roofs one minute and climb Martin Websters wishing tree the next . Most likely without protection in either instance.

 

[Red Storm]

There have been others who have achieved those results, mainly community groups or independents who put work in (not related to the IWCA). The IWCA are ultra left 'cos all else has failed' and they go it alone (for 20 years in 3 areas. the 3 they started in), that is ultra left by definition.

Yeah some groups have achieved similar results, one being the Community Action Party in Wigan and Salford. However this doesn't detract from impressive results where the far left has often failed.

I agree the IWCA does seem to right off socialism but that isn't ultra leftism, far from it in fact. The IWCA did start, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, as a coalition between Red Action and some other grouplets. Though i thought it was strange. Also working in local areas isn't a bad thing. Most left groups are strongest in a certain area, I.e. Militant and Liverpool and SPEW and Coventry.

None of your arguments are the definition of ultra leftism.

 

[Joe Reilly]

There have been others who have achieved those results, mainly community groups or independents who put work in (not related to the IWCA). The IWCA are ultra left 'cos all else has failed' and they go it alone (for 20 years in 3 areas. the 3 they started in), that is ultra left by definition.

The IWCA started pilot schemes in inner Glasgow, Hatfield, Islington, Hackney, Havering, Nottingham, Newtown in Birmingham, Manchester, Thurrock and in a series of wards in Oxford. Not all stood candidates. Not all lasted the course. It was in 2002 that the IWCA first stood candidates. The last election contested was in 2008. From 2002 -2008 the average return was around 25%. Including 4 Cllrs and a 100 votes shy of two others in Clerkewell and Hackney. Meanwhile In Havering in the IWCA candidates in just two wards took 5,000 votes, roughly half of what the SLP took nationally. Guess who still has high hopes for the SLP?

PS:
{ BH plainly isn't numerate and has an unfortunate tendency to make things up when losing an argument, call people names and so forth, which some find very annoying.

However such behaviour though tiresome, can be more easily understood and forgiven, when you realise he really is only 6.]

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Problem, and this is general to all parties, is that they become victims of their own success if they get that far.

Success attracts carbet-baggers and more centrist influence.

As I understand it, and I could be wrong, this seems to have been a factor in the development of Wigan CAP.

 

[Red Storm]

I'm not sure what's going on with CAP at the moment.

I do know that they are in a bizarre alliance with the English Democrats in the campaign for an elected mayor for Salford