what no annual poppy bunfight thread?

[N_igma]

Look. You and many others on here are inherently 'anti armed forces'. Let us just agree to disagree.

I think you'll find most of us have no problem with armed forces as long as they're not imperialistic. Up the ra

 

[DotCommunist]

Look. You and many others on here are inherently 'anti armed forces'. Let us just agree to disagree.

I can do that- I'll add the caveat that I'm not anti individual soldier or sailor. my parents, my grandfather* and 2 schoolmates have been in the gig, and they are not evil baby killers.

*for his troubles he took part in a 'flu vacc test' as a subject at Porton Down. It wasn't flu vaccines they tested on them. Thats what loyalty to the crown buys you.

 

[Sasaferrato]

I can do that- I'll add the caveat that I'm not anti individual soldier or sailor. my parents, my grandfather* and 2 schoolmates have been in the gig, and they are not evil baby killers.

*for his troubles he took part in a 'flu vacc test' as a subject at Porton Down. It wasn't flu vaccines they tested on them. Thats what loyalty to the crown buys you.

I still have a scar from Porton Down due to Nitrogen Mustard permeating through the suit I was testing. It was when I was waiting for my nursing course to start, we were in 'Holding and Drafting' and got hired out as labour to anyone who needed it. Going to Porton for a couple of weeks was a better option. Scary place. The food was good though.

 

[butchersapron]

I still have a scar from Porton Down due to Nitrogen Mustard permeating through the suit I was testing. It was when I was waiting for my nursing course to start, we were in 'Holding and Drafting' and got hired out as labour to anyone who needed it. Going to Porton for a couple of weeks was a better option. Scary place. The food was good though.

Not so cool for those dead people with no pension. Maybe it was ideology that killed them?

Rather than poisonous gasses

 

[dylanredefined]

I think you'll find most of us have no problem with armed forces as long as they're not imperialistic. Up the ra

Which one there so many to chose from now?

 

[butchersapron]

I think you'll find most of us have no problem with armed forces as long as they're not imperialistic. Up the ra

Don''t drag me into your nationalism. How dare you try and thieve my principles.

 

[coley]

It's the Crown forces. ROYAL Navy. ROYAL Airforce.

What to you think swearing an oath of allegiance to the Queen is? Theatre?

Historical tradition, no more or less.

 

[toggle]

Indeed. It is up to the individual whether they decide to observe the two minute silence, or indeed any other aspect of remembrance.

I'm an ex-soldier, today I sat in silence and remembered my colleagues that are no longer here. A personal thing, no one else in my office knew these people.

I have a growing feeling of unease due to the increasing emphasis on remembering the fallen, almost as if it is 'un-British' or 'disrespectful' not to do so. I don't quite know where it is headed, but I don't like it. My fallen comrades really don't give a fuck whether you observe two minutes of silence or not, they are dead.

and that is the place where a lot of people on this thread are coming from. no one is taking offense at you remembering your old mates. they are mostly using their own words to express the same unease you feel.

 

[Lo Siento.]

They are examples of armed forces acting in a political manner,if and when the British army does the same then it will have become 'political
Until then it remains, as I have said, apolitical.

That's the point. The British Army did all those things, precisely because they were "apolitical".

 

[butchersapron]

Historical tradition, no more or less.

You're quite mad.

 

[Lo Siento.]

It certainly isn't that to many who served (and to many who didn't), but the act and ceremony of remembrance can certainly be said to have been hijacked by the political classes in an attempt to make it serve such a function.

Wouldn't say hijacked. Acts of remembrance are about forging collective memories and collective identities. They promote nationalism because of what they are, not because of anyone twisting their meaning.

 

[Citizen66]

Historical tradition, no more or less.

You're either on a wind up or clueless. Which is it?

 

[coley]

You're either on a wind up or clueless. Which is it?

We take an oath of allegiance which as a result of historical tradition takes the form of an oath to the crown but is in fact an oath to serve the state/nation.
Mebbes your on a wind up?

 

[toggle]

Historical tradition, no more or less.

and what purpose is there in maintaining military traditions? they don't hang on to all those traditions and old symbols as something to do and something to decorate the base with, do they.

 

[coley]

and what purpose is there in maintaining military traditions? they don't hang on to all those traditions and old symbols as something to do and something to decorate the base with, do they.

Depends on what traditions and symbols you mean, the army has quite a collection of odd traditions and symbols.

 

[Lo Siento.]

We take an oath of allegiance which as a result of historical tradition takes the form of an oath to the crown but is in fact an oath to serve the state/nation.
Mebbes your on a wind up?

Why take an oath to the crown and not parliament (for instance)?

 

[coley]

Why take an oath to the crown and not parliament (for instance)?

Like I said earlier its historical, but I doubt anyone would have a problem with it being replaced with an oath to the democratically elected government or some such wording.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Like I said earlier its historical, but I doubt anyone would have a problem with it being replaced with an oath to the democratically elected government or some such wording.

I reckon at least one person would.

 

[Citizen66]

We take an oath of allegiance which as a result of historical tradition takes the form of an oath to the crown but is in fact an oath to serve the state/nation.
Mebbes your on a wind up?

Yes I know all that. But how is it apolitical?

 

[Lo Siento.]

Like I said earlier its historical, but I doubt anyone would have a problem with it being replaced with an oath to the democratically elected government or some such wording.

"We asked 100 people why the military swears an oath to queen, you said 'it's just a tradition'...and... our survey says...

Sorry. It's not on the board."

 

[N_igma]

Don''t drag me into your nationalism. How dare you try and thieve my principles.

I was only fucking about with Sas mate. I didn't think you had any principles though in fairness

 

[toggle]

Depends on what traditions and symbols you mean, the army has quite a collection of odd traditions and symbols.

claiming something is 'just a tradition' when asked about it's purpose is a massive obfuscation.

 

[frogwoman]

Acting 'apolitically' and swearing an oath to the Queen is a political role ffs. And people say that our military is non political because it hasn't intervened in politics, what was the turkish military etc before it actually intervened?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Wouldn't say hijacked. Acts of remembrance are about forging collective memories and collective identities. They promote nationalism because of what they are, not because of anyone twisting their meaning.

I think you're conflating official ceremonial and the intentions behind that, with the actions of individuals, many of whom aren't nationalist by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

what I want to know is why they don't have a giant poppy that squirts water so we can commemorate all the clowns that died in the war?

 

[likesfish]

Because nobody cares.
The corrct answer too how many clowns were killed
Not enough.

 

[Lo Siento.]

I think you're conflating official ceremonial and the intentions behind that, with the actions of individuals, many of whom aren't nationalist by any stretch of the imagination.

Both depend on each other surely?

 

[coley]

claiming something is 'just a tradition' when asked about it's purpose is a massive obfuscation.

Not really, don't do "obfuscation" if you were to narrow your question?

 

[weltweit]

defining "political" might help the thread also.

 

[toggle]

Not really, don't do "obfuscation" if you were to narrow your question?

that wasn't a question. it was a statement discussing your ability to avoid meaningful answers to questions.