What is the best way to combat a populist right victory in next GE?

[Cloo]

Right now it seems pretty likely to me that a 'populist' Tory or Tory/Reform coalition victory at the next election is going to happen. Which is depressing as fuck. Sadly Labour will bring it on themselves by hedging their bets are trying to be 'the slightly less evil Tories' rather than actually fighting the Tory/Populist narrative - the one that everything is th fault of refugees and people on benefits and trans people'. Labour clearly reckon this will protect them from being smashed by the media as 'woke leftie weirdos' despite the fact they are a) doing that regardless and b) relentlessly portraying the government as a disastrous fiasco (and while they are desperately disappointing and cowardly, I wouldn't say they are anywhere near the disastrous fiasco level of the Tories, but that's by the by).

Anyway, unsurprisingly, telling people that they are thick racists if they vote for Reform and their ilk is clearly not working as a way of discouraging people to vote for them. Is there any message that will get through? Would people grasp, for example, a message that these people are oligarch-loving uber capitalists just interested in enriching themselves and their mates? And that you need to ask whether a policy that makes the lives of people the Daily Mail/Twitter tells you to hate worse actually makes your life any better or just distracts you from the fact it's also getting worse?

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I think they need to do something rather than find a new message.

 

[chilango]

I think they need to do something rather than find a new message.

Who's "they"?

 

[Winot]

If people feel better off then they are less likely to vote for Reform. That's my pragmatic rather than moral response.

 

[Cloo]

If people feel better off then they are less likely to vote for Reform. That's my pragmatic rather than moral response.

Yeah, if Labour could magic up a million social housing units that would help

 

[Saul Goodman]

Maybe if Starmer gets Luigi'd.

 

[Cloo]

If people feel better off then they are less likely to vote for Reform. That's my pragmatic rather than moral response.

But seriously, yes, this is the root of it. And sadly no one's going to that without basically being massively anticapitalist and outright redistributing wealth, which I don't see happening any time soon. Everyone is just going to get worse and worse off as the richest cream off more and more - and the middle classes need to really get this means them too now - and people will respond by voting in politicians who will just accelerate that,

 

[Puddy_Tat]

If people feel better off then they are less likely to vote for Reform. That's my pragmatic rather than moral response.

and so far we have had -

most pensioners losing winter fuel allowance (and no, pensioners with an income slightly more than £ 220 a week are not 'wealthy')

electricity and gas going up

bus fares (outside london and some city regions) going up significantly in january

train fares going up in january

the NI contributions changes coming next year - which employers are going to use as an excuse for cutting jobs and not giving pay rises

most of the public sector talking about redundancies

suppose there's scope for a minor give-away the year before the next election - it worked for the tories a few times...

 

[tommers]

If they want people to vote for them then they need to actually do something that isn't "business as normal". And yeah, that will be difficult, even if they wanted to, but my suspicion is that they don't want to. Otherwise yeah why would people not believe reform if even the party that's supposedly opposed to them say exactly the same things?

 

[Winot]

Well the idea is to grow the pie, hence the change to planning laws that are annoying the rural Tories.

 

[marty21]

I can't see a Tory/reform merger , despite the drip drip of defections amongst the swivel-eyed Tories. The remaining Tory MPs are probably in the safest of seats to have been re-elected , they are unlikely to lose more seats in 2029. What I can see is some sort of diabolical Tory/Labour deal (particularly if Starmer survives) just to fuck Farage.

 

[brogdale]

I can't see a Tory/reform merger , despite the drip drip of defections amongst the swivel-eyed Tories. The remaining Tory MPs are probably in the safest of seats to have been re-elected , they are unlikely to lose more seats in 2029. What I can see is some sort of diabolical Tory/Labour deal (particularly if Starmer survives) just to fuck Farage.

Tend to agree with this take, but reckon the 'rainbow' coalition option will raise its head before we get into National Government territory.

 

[redsquirrel]

Who is the subject of the question in the OP? The LP, the 'left', workers in general? Because the interests (general and specific to this issue) of the third are in direct opposition to those of the first.

For workers the best way to combat the hard right is, as always, to get involved in the class struggle - whether that is becoming active in a union, a community group, whatever

 

[Cloo]

I guess I mean people on the Left - is there any way to communicate that we're not doing this because we're miserable killjoys who want everyone to be poor. Like, how can we get over to people that, if they can't find it in themselves to care about other people, can they grasp that they will be cheated, their kids will be cheated and their lives will get much, much worse under these grifters?

 

[SpookyFrank]

The number of ordinary people currently weeping and wailing about the prospect of a couple of hundred multi-millionaire landowners paying some tax makes me less than hopeful tbh. The indoctrination runs deep.

 

[Smangus]

Shoot Farage, Tice and 30p, twice - just to make sure of it.

 

[furluxor]

Imho, it's by 1) raising the living standards; 2) by giving up on trying to reconcile left & right policies; 3) by stopping the moralising.

Happy people are less interested in squabbling. Far right cannot be appeased, and throwing some social groups under the bus is not going to reduce the attacks on the left - it's just going to demoralise it. Finally, the left needs to drop the moral high ground in its rhetoric (maintain it in policies!) and instead adopt the sexier stance of fighting the ultra-rich like hell. Look at the healthcare CEO shooter - it was a moment that brought a lot of those angry right-radicalised people under the same umbrella as the left. People are poor, and mad about it. They are especially mad about being told they're stupid and bad, on top of it all.

 

[Dystopiary]

and so far we have had -

most pensioners losing winter fuel allowance (and no, pensioners with an income slightly more than £ 220 a week are not 'wealthy')

electricity and gas going up

bus fares (outside london and some city regions) going up significantly in january

train fares going up in january

the NI contributions changes coming next year - which employers are going to use as an excuse for cutting jobs and not giving pay rises

most of the public sector talking about redundancies

suppose there's scope for a minor give-away the year before the next election - it worked for the tories a few times...

And taking up where they left off with their war on benefit claimants. Using the press to demonise and scapegoat while they make it even harder for disabled people to survive.

 

[Eivets Rednow]

Like I think is also the answer for combatting climate change, I think to defeat the far right we need to use
spin doctoring tactics in a big way to alter mind sets and change behaviour. I think the ethics of this are tricky because it’s political rather than climate change. Perhaps we need to think of it as marketing against fascism, but to the people we can’t use that language as they won’t like it.

 

[Eivets Rednow]

Further to the above post I made, I also think the “comms” or whatever it is you want to call it needs to be targeted at specific identified groups. These might not be geographic groups, or friendship groups. More likely it’s online spaces that people inhabit with their specific behaviours and browsing habits. Might also work in education to do this stuff.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Like I think is also the answer for combatting climate change, I think to defeat the far right we need to use
spin doctoring tactics in a big way to alter mind sets and change behaviour. I think the ethics of this are tricky because it’s political rather than climate change. Perhaps we need to think of it as marketing against fascism, but to the people we can’t use that language as they won’t like it.

There should be an opportunity here by pushing the idea that you cannot have social justice without tackling climate change and environmental degradation, and you cannot tackle climate change without social justice.

Corbyn's Labour tentatively put a toe in to test this Green New Deal. I thought at the time that they should have been much bolder and built a coherent platform around it, and I still think that. It joins up ideas to do with nationalising utilities, taxing the rich, providing decent housing, food security, pollution issues, children's health. The list could go on and on, all policies built around a single transformative agenda. And it's easy to sell the economic case - a green transition involves investment and jobs.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And you don't sell that idea while wearing a hair shirt. On the contrary, decent quality of life and real freedom to live your own way can only happen with this kind of transformation.

 

[Eivets Rednow]

There should be an opportunity here by pushing the idea that you cannot have social justice without tackling climate change and environmental degradation, and you cannot tackle climate change without social justice.

Corbyn's Labour tentatively put a toe in to test this Green New Deal. I thought at the time that they should have been much bolder and built a coherent platform around it, and I still think that. It joins up ideas to do with nationalising utilities, taxing the rich, providing decent housing, food security, pollution issues, children's health. The list could go on and on, all policies built around a single transformative agenda. And it's easy to sell the economic case - a green transition involves investment and jobs.

Hi there, thank you for your response. This is definitely already happening, if you look at the UN Sustainable Development Goals, it combines social justice and climate change. In professional settings this has been appreciated and noted for many years. But unless you are part of those circles where this is common knowledge you wouldn’t know about. The branding is slick, “professional” and this doesn’t appeal to some people. The branding and approach needs to change but we already have this figured out.

 

[Eivets Rednow]

And you don't sell that idea while wearing a hair shirt. On the contrary, decent quality of life and real freedom to live your own way can only happen with this kind of transformation.

Yes, it is about selling! And that’s the persuasion. Selling life, and improvement. Make people feel good in their guts.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The idea needs to be sold, but it's not just about that, is it? It needs to be both practical and radical. It needs to go after inequality as a social ill in and of itself. Nobody has dared address that since Thatcher, but ever-increasing inequality is not inevitable. Inequality in the UK went down from the 40s to the 70s. It's been rising ever since and the likes of New Labour and New New Labour treat this fact as if it were some law of the universe. It is not.

Neoliberal business as usual, this is not. It means attacking people like Black Rock, not wining and dining them. They can shove their investment up their arses.

 

[Cloo]

I heard an interesting comment that one's main social media platform may become as much as marker if your politics as political party affiliation. Social media has certainly made it easier for fringe parties, unfortunately mainly far right ones, to get a much bigger reach than previously.

 

[The39thStep]

Put the campaign to rejoin the EU to the fore

 

[Cloo]

Put the campaign to rejoin the EU to the fore

No one will have the guts to do that though, not when every newspaper magnate will jump in their headlines screaming TRAITORS ENEMIES OF THE UNITED KINGDOM etc. It's this fucking cowardice in the face of those bastards who don't actually represent most people's views.

 

[Eivets Rednow]

The idea needs to be sold, but it's not just about that, is it? It needs to be both practical and radical. It needs to go after inequality as a social ill in and of itself. Nobody has dared address that since Thatcher, but ever-increasing inequality is not inevitable. Inequality in the UK went down from the 40s to the 70s.

There seems to be quite a bit of research into this at the London School of Economics at the moment, and funding. I genuinely think people all over the place are trying to deal with inequality. But are they getting their views and ideas heard by enough people? How can we spread this? I’ve heard people talking of silos, so perhaps the necessary thing is to break the silos.

 

[eatmorecheese]

The slow strangulation of people, livelihoods and communities that Neoliberal doctrine requires creates the conditions for populism to flourish. To me, the Tices and Farages of this world will always be around. It's frightening that they are taken seriously but far from surprising.

No mainstream party shows any inclination to explore radical grassroots change. Those that gravitate towards the populists are not all nutters; they may be people just as disillusioned as me who recognise that parliamentary democracy is a complete sham, MPs cannot scrutinise legislation or hold power to account let alone effect any meaningful change.

I just feel this is going to get worse. Much worse.