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Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")

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I agree with Edward Said and think there are problems with Islamic essentialism. Samuel Huntingdon's 'The Clash of Civilisations' was rubbish.

One of my friends from school is Ismaili Indian. They follow the Aga Khan as a descendent of Mohammad and the way they live seems fairly liberal to me.

Fair enough. I'm very prepared to be persuaded that Said was right – I'd prefer it if he were, clearly. Certainly Islam as it was practised by the Mughals was a long way from Wahabbism. Maybe it is misleading to search for an essentialism.
 
I've already told you my opinion re the views of one single copper.

Yes. You, and Proper Tidy, have both declared her videotaped statement to NRK - Norway's equivalent of the BBC - as being completely untruthful.
In your view Hanne Kristin Rohde is lying in this video.
The reason you gave is because she is a cop.
(no prejudice there then, even though you are very keen to highlight similar prejudices in others!!)



So that suggests two possibilities.

Either you are correct, and the head of Oslo's violent and sexual section of the Oslo police has told an outrageous lie, one with massive political ramifications that would provoke loud and furious responses from every corner of the globe - if proven to be a lie.

Or she is telling the truth, and the truth has perhaps been deemed too offensive or inflammatory to be reported widely by the mainstream media.
It is simply too shocking to be even considered. Ignore it, dismiss it. Attack it. Deny it. Anything but confront it and debate it rationally.

Which conspiracy theory are you going to opt for? The former?

"On Tuesday 21 December 2010 she was named the Citizen of the Year by Oslo Aftenposten's readers, with over half of the votes of the total of eight nominees. Rohde has on several occasions spoken to the media that openness and honesty are important values in her exercise of leadership at the police district."

Seems highly unlikely to me that such an important and renowned figure in Norwegian society would risk everything for such an abhorrent lie.

So I did a little more digging.

It appears NRK followed it up with their own editorial, which includes statistics.

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...eter/norge/1.6567955&hl=en&safe=off&prmd=ivns

It appears that the translation shows a distinct category of rape - "assault rape" - in other words a brutally violent rape - "it can range from threats of the use of the knife to suffocation and extensive use of punches and kicks".

41 cases of such rape attacks were reported - and all 41 were committed by non-western men - "relatively young men who come from other countries. They are often asylum seekers, and often come from countries or traumatized country with a very different view women than we have in Norway"

Perhaps NRK are lying - or are an unreliable source?

Hardly. Being the Norsk equivalent of the BBC, this is unlikely. They are a part of Norway's heritage in precisely the same way as the BBC are here.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/08/20/nrk-celebrates-its-50-years-of-tv/

So let's just clarify - do you really think Hanne Kristin Rohde is just a liar?

Seems illogical to dismiss her finding purely because "she's just one cop", even though she clearly has the support of the country behind her.

It's OK, you can refuse to discuss it - maybe pretend I didn't post this at all, it never happened - perhaps it's just too difficult a topic for you to discuss.
 
Yes. You, and Proper Tidy, have both declared her videotaped statement to NRK - Norway's equivalent of the BBC - as being completely untruthful.
No I haven't. Thatsjust a pathetic lie. You must be fucking desperate to resort to such tactics.

Cherry picking 'facts', wilfull distortion of facts, ignoring contradictory facts, and now downright lying. Well done pk, you've managed the whole shebang now!

You worthless cunt
 
No I haven't. Thatsjust a pathetic lie. You must be fucking desperate to resort to such tactics.

Cherry picking 'facts', wilfull distortion of facts, ignoring contradictory facts, and now downright lying. Well done pk, you've managed the whole shebang now!

You worthless cunt

Ah right, good. Now you know how frustrating it is to try and remain on-topic whilst being selectively quoted and generally pissed about with. Great stuff.

Are you now prepared to at least entertain the idea that there may be a teensy weensy element of cultural upringing that leads these tragic lads into stooping to the depraved levels that they have been jailed for?

That perhaps there is a smigeon of nasty islamic rhetoric that states quite clearly that non-muslim women are OK as long as you control - or even elslave - them??

Or will you again avoid discussing the core issue after 60 something pages?
 
Are you now prepared to at least entertain the idea that there may be a teensy weensy element of cultural upringing that leads these tragic lads into stooping to the depraved levels that they have been jailed for?

Of course there is, how can anyone doubt it?
 
Of course there is, how can anyone doubt it?

So that's racist? To think that?

This is the crux of the issue, semantics and religion is nothing compared to basic human logic.

The one and the only way to combat racism is simple, plain old logic.

There are stark conclusions and ideas that need to be discussed properly. Not here, I doubt.
 
Are you now prepared to at least entertain the idea that there may be a teensy weensy element of cultural upringing that leads these tragic lads into stooping to the depraved levels that they have been jailed for?

But that is probably true of any wife-beater, pimp or misogynist.
 
In terms of a way forward - the key is the wives of these bastards. They knew. They said nothing.
 
So that's racist? To think that?

That culture influences the actions of individuals? Of course not.

In practical terms the best predictor of whether someone would turn out to be a rapist or not would be their individual character, quirks of temperament and so on. Not what religion they follow, although I just don't see what belligerent religious fundamentalists of any kind have to offer a pretty successful society like that of Norway. They've already got enough Black Metal fans, so why let in more freaks?

It would be racist for the Norwegians to declare that no more Pakistanis or Kurds or whoever would ever be allowed to set foot in Norway again. That would have big repercussions on immigrants and their descendants already living in Norway and would put race or ethnicity to the forefront of political thinking - not a good move.

But it would be sensible of the Norwegians to treat would-be immigrants as individuals and carry out in-depth screening on anyone wishing to live there.
 
Lest we forget... they were doing advanced astrology and maths when we were running about with bits of flint on a stick.
 
Okay Panda K, suppose you're right, and segments of the Koran have provoked men in Norway and the UK to rape. What now?
 
Okay Panda K, suppose you're right, and segments of the Koran have provoked men in Norway and the UK to rape. What now?

What now? We look at giving these humble good muslim women who raise these boys a voice.

We give them clear lines of communication - within UK law not Sharia - we empower them with the knowledge that they can speak up and give them the confidence to be able to defend themselves against the dark subservient shadow of some way outdated way of life.

This is not Pakistan and we do not accept the way women are treated in strict enclosed communities.
We do not accept the manner in which boys are taught to fear women, the fear that they will corrupt and deprave goes hand in hand with the need to enslave.

The wives of these rapists must surely have known each other, have confided in each other stories about the cocaine, perhaps the friends dropping by, the smell of these bastards having returned from their little harem.

Do not insult the intelligence of the Pakistani people by presuming the wives of these sick men were completely oblivious to what was going on around them for what was at least a year.

Who can they talk to? What can they do? They suffer, for it is their role in life. They say nothing. They can never betray their husbands, because the penalty is all too often death.

For all we know, it may have been the wives who reported to the police the girls, maybe they found a cellphone, we will never know.

But if there is an agreed "third way" option whereby the womenfolk have an anonymous helpline, for starters, something as simple and as crass as a Freefone number.

I think then these wicked patterns of abuse would at least begin to ripple inward, instead of outward as we are being led to believe.

Don't bother addressing these issues with your Political Science degrees, your 2:1 results from some pissy uni.
Politics, political peacock feathers, it's bullshit. All the clamouring for re-definition of what amounts to basic human instinct and logic is achieving fuck all.

Times have changed - people, specifically women, can't be as bothered to go to the Polling Booth on vote day, but they'll text a fiver's worth of votes to some ballroom dancer or jungle survivor on TV.

The over-intellectualising and the fear of being racist - it's usually funny, but not with this issue.

The right wing and the left wing have so much in common it's unfuckingbelievable - both cherish exactly what it is to be British but in different ways.

One side waves the flag and chants dodgy songs at the footie and drinks the lager in memory of grannie's glory days long past in some fucked up monkey island belief that Rule Brittania meant anything other than piracy, rape and miserable wars.

The other side is awkward, over-apologetic, fearful of offending, overly generous, and generally weak and cowardly and asking to be taken advantage of by people with a memory as long as those from all twats from the other countries I just described above.

Both beautiful examples of what it is to be a Brit.

But we have to set rules. If we didn't have rules where would we be? French!
 
:D At general tone.

Ummm, not a bad idea, but I can't see many woman phoning a state line over suspected infidelity (did they really suspect more?) of their spouses though....
 
:D At general tone.

Ummm, not a bad idea, but I can't see many woman phoning a state line over suspected infidelity (did they really suspect more?) of their spouses though....

Does it need to be a state line??

Maybe we can plant some undercover cop like Mark Stone, to drive these women around and listen to all their stories. He'd have to wear the hijab though.
 
I also agree that the women need a bit of Pankhurst in their lives, this is the key!

Trouble is, it's not something anyone else can instigate!
 
Anything from the stupidly left wing these days is just ...
young-ones.jpg


Fuck all your little workshops and discussion groups if you can't discuss this issue.

Coz it encapsulates everything the state paid for you to learn, and it scares the shit out of you.

:)

(that wasn't to you chazegee my darling)
 
And everything from the right wing these days is... well - the only people convicted of this crime that were not from the Pakistani community were white.

At least two of the three are apparently BNP members, in the same gang as these muslim men, sharing in harmony like ebony and ivory, raping our white children after plying them with vodka and cocaine. 11 years old you fucking scum.

If that's their definition of white power then perhaps Islam really is the future for the United Kingdom.

I know I'd sooner praise Allah than praise these examples of so-called Anglo Saxon purity.

BNP and EDL can fuck right off. UAF and SWP can fuck right off too. And the rest of the hypocrites.

You're all full of shit and you're helping nobody.

Grow the fuck up, we're not in Kansas any more, Toto.

The life of one child at risk of this shit is worth more than all your fucking principles, your religions, your shitty little political movements and your general failure at life put together.

And fuck you if you disagree. :)
 
And everything from the right wing these days is... well - the only people convicted of this crime that were not from the Pakistani community were white.

At least two of the three are apparently BNP members, in the same gang as these muslim men, sharing in harmony like ebony and ivory, raping our white children after plying them with vodka and cocaine.

If that's their definition of white power then perhaps Islam really is the future for the United Kingdom.

What about atheism? I think even Islam will slowly die out after a few generations in the UK.
 
Okay then, this has just answered my assertion of why this shouldn't be a race issue, it wasn't, because the BNP were getting theirs too. :eek:
But even if it was, what are the options, trying to influence a culture from outside (never works anyway), or just treating these guys as normal UK scumbags and giving them harsh sentences, far more likely to put off future rapists than a hotline no?
 
What about atheism? I think even Islam will slowly die out after a few generations in the UK.

Possibly.

However, if you'd asked me 20 years ago, I would have assumed that second and third generation British Pakistanis would generally be far less religious than their parents and far more secular in their outlook. That hasn't proved to be the case. Large numbers of second and third generation Pakistanis are if anything more religious than their parents, embracing far more conservative brands of Islam.
 
What about atheism? I think even Islam will slowly die out after a few generations in the UK.

Atheism is still a position that needs defining and defending. And sooner or later we're just back to the same old shit. This is human nature. We will never live in peace because it is against our nature.

We are "el mano conqistadore" or something like that. Born to hunt, compete.

Maybe it's time the gatherers, not the hunters, took charge.

Do I have a simple 24hr solution to providing women embedded within islamic stations a voice? No.

But the people who hand out the money do.

Just think if we could really live that Marxist dream for real.

Only Marx did not invent it.

None of you thick political student grants had the faintest idea that marxism had already been invented by the British decades before old Karl took to the stage.

I guess they didn't teach that in the pissy universities?

William Glass, now he invented what people now call communism back in 1816.

And he implemented it - and - it is a arguably a successful society to this day based upon similar principles. And British territory.

Do your homework now, politico twats. What you call marxism was invented by a Scotsman.

LOL!
 
Okay then, this has just answered my assertion of why this shouldn't be a race issue, it wasn't, because the BNP were getting theirs too. :eek:
But even if it was, what are the options, trying to influence a culture from outside (never works anyway), or just treating these guys as normal UK scumbags and giving them harsh sentences, far more likely to put off future rapists than a hotline no?

fwiw my two-penneth would be that we are dealing with two issues that need to be kept separate.

These men need to be dealt with as common rapists.

Any issues there might be with the culture that produced them need to be dealt with entirely separately and on their own terms. There needs to be far more moral clarity at, to give one concrete example, universities and the way they treat their Islamic societies, telling them that if they will not treat men and women equally at their meetings, they will not be able to meet on university premises. There is a lot of muddled thinking that is making people turn a blind eye to discrimination.
 
What about atheism? I think even Islam will slowly die out after a few generations in the UK.

Could be right, I'm sure lots of recent immigrants cling to the Koran now because the feel totally alienated from UK culture, if and when more integration/acceptance happens, they can throw blanky out the window.
 
Possibly.

However, if you'd asked me 20 years ago, I would have assumed that second and third generation British Pakistanis would generally be far less religious than their parents and far more secular in their outlook. That hasn't proved to be the case. Large numbers of second and third generation Pakistanis are if anything more religious than their parents, embracing far more conservative brands of Islam.

I think that's a reaction to having two cultures and not being totally accepted as British by some people. I think time will lessen that. Although there will still be enclaves for fundamentalists like there are for Hassidic Jews. I suppose the global treatment of muslims by the West will also have a big influence.
 
I think that's a reaction to having two cultures and not being totally accepted as British by some people. I think time will lessen that.

Yes. I think it is that too. You could be right – a few generations after all is quite a few decades. In my more optimistic moments, I actually think that racism generally will die a slow death in the UK even substantially within my lifetime. But it will not die a painless death, unfortunately.
 
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