Weasel Straw strikes again (Pakistani men in Britain see white girls as "easy meat")
- Thread starter DrRingDing
- Start date
- Status
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I think the guys who did this know what they did is wrong. Differing values don't enter into it. Muslims know this was wrong just as non Muslims know it was wrong.
No they don't, though I doubt most rapists know what they are doing is wrong. In another thread you made a very clear point that there are many types of Islam, the type in Pakistan is the most loony form it is pretty much the unadultered medieval one that is promoted by the Saudi's you know more than me on this so correcrt me. I think if you have a community in Britain from rural Pakistan raising their families with this ultra orthodox doctine its going to ferment into some very destructive attidudes as young men battle between the two worlds they live in. It is valid in my opinion to approach the subject without accusing Islam as a whole.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Yeah this.
Also - An estimated 70,000 women living in the UK have undergone FGM - yet there has not been one conviction.
Anyone would think there really was a deliberate clouding of serious issues for PC reasons. 70,000 is a big number.
Anyway - those who doubt there is a specific problem with integrating certain aspects of hardcore islamic values can take it up with Mohammed Shafiq, director of the Ramadhan Foundation.
“Although there have been some cases of white men being involved in this sexual exploitation of young girls, most of the perpetrators are Muslim. There are some Muslims who think that as long as these sex gangs aren’t targeting their own sisters and daughters the issue doesn’t affect them. It’s a form of racism that’s abhorrent in a civilised society. These people think that white girls ….are less valuable than our girls.”
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
No. First we start blaming the perpetrators. Not trying to pretend it's only this or that type of sexist moron and not "our" type of sexist moron.
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
Apparently they will be round next Tuesday to fix it, if the weather's good and they can get hold of the van on time.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
You are talking about Deoband Dar-ul-Uloom Islam in South Asia and Salafism (sometimes called Wahabism) in Saudi. This is the pan national Islam of the Taliban and Bin Laden that preaches the rejection of Western and modernist values etc. It Is indeed a growiing force in Pakistan though by no means the only one. Deobandi is indeed followed here by about 45% of British Muslims, though not all Deobandi Muslims follow the extreme Deobandi Dar ul Uloom school. (I don't have the stats but it is a small minority who do)
I am working on a post about this for the Pakistan thread and will discuss it at more length there.)
Those Bible texts selected by Mad Dyl were all Old Testament.
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article190268.ece
In this case the position appears to be that the Norwegian Radio thing you posted is an outright falsehood. Also note that 9 out of 10 cases investigated don't lead to any charges, so without figures for the ethnic make up of those accused and not charged there is the potential suspicion that as much as anything it could be that immigrants are more likely to be charged rather than more likely to be guilty.
Islam In Europe has an interesting look at the stats in more detail.
Ablemesh has an even more disturbing look at the figures showing that if you look at the raw data the much trumpeted 65% figure for non Western immigrants committing sexual offences in Norway is in fact a misprint of 6.5%. Which leads me to suspect that what's actually going on here is more to do with hysterical islamophobia than anything else.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
What some of us are trying to say is that they are all problems that need to be dealt with, and the way to deal with them is to attack the attitude that women or children can be used as property regardless of what sort of person holds that attitude. Otherwise you simply create a situation where it is assumed that it's only a problem when "they" (Catholics, Muslims, the middle class, aliens) do it, and not when "we" do.
Treacle Toes
Time
That is one hell of a misprint!!!!
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
What the fuck??
Seriously? It's 6.5 instead of 65 percent??
LOL, is this a wind up??
you buying into this liberal pointyhead shit then ern
Rape is far far less common in moslem countries than it is in say, South Africa.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Sorry - who has said that the homogeneous pakistani or white communities should take responsibility for it?
I know I haven't. This is an issue for parents, schools, teachers, carers, and above all the care services that are funded to ensure the welfare of vulnerable children. The whole entire point of the issue coming to light is to protect further children from suffering this scenario.
Taking responsibility for this is like taking the blame - nobody can be blamed for what these fuckers did apart from themselves.
Regardless of this 65 percent figure that has now by magic shrunk to a mere 6.5, Jack Straw can hardly be accused of being a "weasel" by saying what he has, not when he has the broad support of senior muslim figures in the UK.
My point is and always has been that there are certain cultural reasons where such crimes may be seen as somehow justified. Enabled, even.
And yep, I've probably made a complete mess of the point I was on to begin with, but if anyone really thinks there is not a huge sense of feeling from the indigenous pakistani community, especially the young men, that UK girls are fair game, they are asking for it, and raping them isn't as bad as raping a muslim sister - then you're a mug, and by burying the issue by saying "but white men rape kids too, look at the priests!" - then you are pretty much enabling further abuses of children.
It's that fucking simple.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
And you haven't come across as the most morally steadfast, Mr "I can name a Bradford muslim hooker, and I'm also mates with loads of pimps".
Perhaps you might like to save some cash up and this time you might procure a muslim 12 year old being sold for sex to make your point, eh?
That's the trouble with pimps. Always some fucking perverted cunt giving them money, so why should they stop recruiting vulnerable women?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
This "poshboy" certainly never had to pay for sex in his life, that's my point. You muslim mate selling his wife now?
And don't get all upset if I'm grossly misrepresenting YOUR posts now. Easy to do that when you can't be arsed to argue the point.
Treacle Toes
Time
Unfortunately though, many people will be making a connection that rings all kinds of 'bells' in people's heads because most of this gang are of Pakistani heritage and, most of their victims White, as it feeds into the long promoted narrative that 'foreigners' can't be trusted, especially around 'our women'!
What struck me about his statement was the point where he said something about most of the sex offenders in English prisions being White. I can't remember him or any other politician making public statements or launching campaigns to address the prevalent problem of White sex offenders.
this aint about race is it pk, its about class, you cant believe anyone didnt have your middle class tourist trip in our poverty, you want to over intellectualise what is simply shit we have to deal with, you're so desperate to fucking judge but still too liberal too see the truth that some people are just rapist scum, most arent and no amount of your guardinista concerned bollcoks is even fucking relevant to us because we dont need your fucking sort
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
The point is that it isn't simply an issue that relates to the Pakistani community in the UK. It's an issue that relates to some groups of men of all kinds of backgrounds just about everywhere in the world.
There are two reasons why it's important to stay clear on that point.
Firstly there is currently a huge amount of islamophobia in the Western world at the moment, and a lot of people deliberately stirring it up, as well as many falling for it. That's very clearly shown by the Norwegian stuff where media hysteria has been successfully created by a combination of opportunistic (and unknowing) repetition of a misprinted statistic, and by concentrating on a single controversial headline idea to the exclusion of all the masses of contrary data (such as the simple fact that the highest levels of sex crime in Norway are in the north of the country where immigration is lowest). In itself this should be avoided.
Also there is the problem of concentrating on one group of offenders whilst letting off the hook others who commit the same sort of offence. This is wrong for two reasons. It means some groups will be more likely to get away with their crimes. It also leads to some refusing to accept that people like them can be involved in that sort of crime. It's the crime that has to be targetted and not the racial/ethnic/religious group the criminal can be categorised as belonging to. Race/ethnicity/religion/gender and so on are only relevant if they are clearly and unambiguously a major factor. So it is reasonable to say that rape appears to be more likely to be committed by men than by women. There isn't clear data to suggest that any race or religion commits rape to a disproportionate extent.
So there is something useful to look at. Gangs of young men grooming vulnerable young women and girls to be sex objects. That is a horrific thing that we should all do our best to prevent. However we won't be doing our best to prevent it by solely concentrating on young Pakistani men in the UK. We will only be doing our best to prevent it by looking at all such gangs of men regardless of who they are.
End of.
Can we go home now?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Yeah that's right comrade - it's ALL about class.
Yep, I'm a middle class posh boy who decided to work in Bradford for two years instead of the Seychelles or Switzerland.
So clearly your class bigotry shows.
"when I were a lad we couln't afford t'prozzies, we'd fling em tuppence for a glimpse o'tits"
Give me a fucking break.
You're so proud of Bradford and so you should be - seems to me you're part of the fucking problem not the solution, unless paying a pimp to fuck one of his girls counts as "class solidarity" to you.
Fuck you my friend, and fuck your notions of class.
Just keep an eye on your kids if you ever move back to Bradford, eh?
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
and there you go again, assuming just because ive known people in the sex industry, then i must somehow be a supporter of it, as opposed to the fact they might just have been my fucking neighbours or related to people i was close to
i know its easy when all you ever read about this stuff is in the newspapers, i know that makes you think that you have a right to make judgements about shit you know nothing about, i know you think two years in bradford makes you feel all edgy and down with the proles
but in reality you are the very worst kind of liberal fucking scum, ever vigilant for a way to condemn the horrors you imagined in your brief adventure into poverty tourism
ericjarvis
give a feck for the feckless
This is sloppy thinking.
Actually I know quite a few prostitutes and a couple of pimps. I've never paid for the services of a lady of negotiable affection, but I don't just walk past anyone on the street pretending they don't exist. So I get to know the street girls when I live in an area they operate from (as I do currently). They know me, not as a customer, but as somebody who is generally worth a try at bumming a fag off (Americans please consult a slang dictionary at this point) and as somebody who will stop and have a chat if they are bored or feel like having a moan about the state of the world/the state of their life/the price of drugs. I'd even count some of them as friends rather than acquaintances, though by and large it's best not to become too closely involved with crack whores or their pimps.
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
If the figure of 65% is in reality 6.5% then there are a serious amount of people out there repeating it, in respectable publications.
It's an horrific figure... and I put my hand up to posting it in good faith - if it's wrong it's wrong and I'll amend my posts accordingly.
Nobody is talking about letting non-muslims "off the hook".
I think the crux of the issue is a generation of young men that have been raised on religious bullshit from the dark ages and have no outlet for that.
But I've seen with my own eyes the attitudes toward overtly Western women from those who profess to be "good muslims".
In the nice guys it is shyness and embarrassment, in the nasty guys it is poisonous talk of sluts and whores that should merely be punished, they are worthless.
Retarded antiquated views of women that should be left behind in the countries they came from.
Surprising how few women there are on this thread too...
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
"poverty tourism" LOL you crack me up.
You were probably born into more money that I was, you fucking twat.
Here's some advice - give up on the obsession that I am middle class, never have been and probably never will be.
I don't know which of the resident retards gave you such daft ideas, but I can assure you they aren't true.
Where do you get such ridiculous notions? Do tell...
And besides you admitted it earlier in the thread - paraphrasing, you said: "much to my shame I do know the pimps of Bradford".
So you're not middle class but you still found some pimp money spare, eh? Expensive habit, that...
- Status
Similar threads
