War propaganda, 'Realists' and neocons, and the denigration of the war sceptics

[Rob Ray]

Here's the thing chief, at no point have I expressed a view on military production. That's you. And what has been asked of you is to provide some sources to work off. All this whining and tedious sarcasm you're doing is irrelevant. You have put forward a point, so justify it. This is as basic as it gets on a forum and should not lead to an extended temper tantrum.

 

[RD2003]

Here's the thing chief, at no point have I expressed a view on military production. That's you. And what has been asked of you is to provide some sources to work off. All this whining and tedious sarcasm you're doing is irrelevant. You have put forward a point, so justify it. This is as basic as it gets on a forum and should not lead to an extended temper tantrum.

What do you want me to do? Write a book on it?

You know as well as I do how the arms industry is central to the fuelling of military conflict. I might provide the kind of links you insist on at some point, but I'm not doing it on command.

 

[Rob Ray]

Links to the information that led you to your conclusion will do just fine, as everyone else on this and every other forum does every day of the week.

I might provide the kind of links you insist on at some point, but I'm not doing it on command.

If you make assertions and then refuse to provide even the simplest backing for them then don't act hurt or surprised when people tell you, your vague unhelpful statements, and your passive-aggressive bullshit to go do one.

 

[platinumsage]

What do you want me to do? Write a book on it?

You know as well as I do how the arms industry is central to the fuelling of military conflict. I might provide the kind of links you insist on at some point, but I'm not doing it on command.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the pharmaceutical industry.

 

[RD2003]

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the pharmaceutical industry.

I don't have any.

 

[RD2003]

Links to the information that led you to your conclusion will do just fine, as everyone else on this and every other forum does every day of the week.


If you make assertions and then refuse to provide even the simplest backing for them then don't act hurt or surprised when people tell you, your vague unhelpful statements, and your passive-aggressive bullshit to go do one.

It would take more than you lot to make me feel hurt, and nobody on here ever surprises me.

If my my statements are unhelpful, who among those on here are providing the helpful ones, and who exactly are they helping?

Why is passive aggression a problem? Some people may just be natutrally passive-aggressive. Other people merely swear and throw out insults at those they disagree with. Each to their own.

 

[Rob Ray]

There's an entire thread of people providing helpul links. You were kicked off it. Perhaps you should ponder that a little beyond your usual "everyone except me is stupid and wrong" kick - and while you're at it, maybe ponder exactly what that galaxy brain attitude of yours is achieving when it's consistently failing to persuade anyone of your position and turning you into a laughing stock.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Have the rebels and revolutionaries on here really lost sight of themselves so much that they have seriously started to deny the role of the arms industry in war?

Jesus fucking Wept. Given that the insurance industry rakes money in from accidents, surely they'd be sabotaging planes and causing road accidents all the time?
Pickman's was right. This is Galloway style loonery.

 

[RD2003]

There's an entire thread of people providing helpul links. You were kicked off it. Perhaps you should ponder that a little beyond your usual "everyone except me is stupid and wrong" kick - and while you're at it, maybe ponder exactly what that galaxy brain attitude of yours is achieving when it's consistently failing to persuade anyone of your position and turning you into a laughing stock.

Again, you seem to think I care about the opinions of others on here.

I might think some people who reply to me are wrong but I don't think they're stupid, although I occasionally get replies from people who are clearly pretty stupid. I even concede that I may turn out be wrong about everything, and if I am, so what? Nobody would give a toss if I fell down dead here and now.

These helpful links-is there any direct evidence of who they are helping and how?

 

[RD2003]

Jesus fucking Wept. Given that the insurance industry rakes money in from accidents, surely they'd be sabotaging planes and causing road accidents all the time?
Pickman's was right. This is Galloway style loonery.

Don't you have some tale of your class struggle derring-do to tell somebody?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Don't you have some tale of your class struggle derring-do to tell somebody?

You didn't like my previous reply, then?

 

[Rob Ray]

Again, you seem to think I care about the opinions of others on here.

You cared enough to start this very thread, and argue for weeks. You are fooling no-one, except perhaps yourself.

 

[RD2003]

You cared enough to start this very thread, and argue for weeks. You are fooling no-one, except perhaps yourself.

Starting a thread doesn't necessarily mean you care about the opinoins of others, particularly when they start treating the subject as secondary to their opinions of you.

And self-deception is a major part of my make-up. It has both caused and seen me through a lifetime of disasters,

 

[Rob Ray]

Starting a thread doesn't necessarily mean you care about the opinoins of others

You keep telling yourself that, maybe one day you'll persuade yourself - a lonely victory. And in the meantime you'll waste your own time, along with that of everyone you come across. On which note, I'll accept that there really is no helping those who refuse to help themselves, and ignore you from now on.

 

[RD2003]

You keep telling yourself that, maybe one day you'll persuade yourself - a lonely victory. And in the meantime you'll waste your own time, along with that of everyone you come across. On which note, I'll accept that there really is no helping those who refuse to help themselves, and ignore you from now on.

We live as we dream, alone.

 

[RD2003]

And so Rob goes away without telling me who those 'helpful links' are helping and how.

 

[RD2003]

Defence companies having a good war in Ukraine as shares skyrocket

Defence company stocks have soared as the war in Ukraine triggers a “massive reinvestment” in arms, industry sources have told The Times.Western powers are floo

www.thetimes.co.uk

Paywall blah blah... Some of you know how to get round it.

 

[RD2003]

Ukraine: the world's defence giants are quietly making billions from the war

Many defence contractors have seen their share prices soar since the war began.

theconversation.com

 

[RD2003]

The Jesuits have a viewpoint (and good to fuck on 'em for it): The defense industry will profit from war in Ukraine—with your money

'And the persistent desire to kill other people, which always finds its way back into societies, is why the United States, the world’s greatest capitalist country, has the greatest weapons industry. “Everybody wants to buy American, then European, then Russian or Chinese,” Mr. Feinstein told me. (Ukraine, he noted, “used to be the main weapons manufacturing supplier to the Soviet Union, and up until recently was still supplying a lot of arms to Russia.”)

Presidents might push back. In March 2009, President Obama insisted that “the days of giving defense contractors a blank check are over.” But the arms industry is so structurally entrenched that it always fights back and wins in the end.'

 

[RD2003]

'Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has, fortuitously presented many leading weapon makers joyous business opportunities which they extolled. News reports from the US revealed that Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, globally amongst the most advanced armament makers, for example, were openly telling their investors that the Ukraine conflict was good for business.'

Russia's Invasion of Ukraine Bodes Good Business for Arms Manufacturers Worldwide

News reports reveal that Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, globally amongst the most advanced armament makers, were openly telling their investors that the Ukraine conflict was good for business.

thewire.in

 

[platinumsage]

Imagine thinking that wars were caused by arms companies. Or even worse, that stopping arms companies from trying to make a profit would stop wars.

Do you think the Crusades were caused by sword and chain-mail manufacturers?

 

[rubbershoes]

Do you think the Crusades were caused by sword and chain-mail manufacturers?

Saladin's aggressive expansion threatened the historical boundaries of England, France and Sicily. The special crusade operation was purely defensive

 

[Smangus]

We should all roll over and let Putin tickle our tummies.......

 

[maomao]

I dunno. There is a level at which all wars are wars between people who think it's alright to go round shooting and bombing other people and those of us who just want to get on with their lives and this has been obscured to some extent by the justifiable nature of the defence of Ukraine.

But when we're all lying around in radioactive rubble watching our loved ones die horrible deaths I'm sure we'll take comfort from the fact that the Russians have been pounded into even smaller pieces of dust than ourselves.

 

[RD2003]

I'm interested in the new movement that's come out of all this: Anarchists and Liberal Lefties for the Multinational Arms Industry (AALLMAI).

 

[RD2003]

We should all roll over and let Putin tickle our tummies.......

Proof positive that people are still, seven weeks on, losing their heads.

 

[two sheds]

I'm interested in the new movement that's come out of all this: Anarchists and Liberal Lefties for the Multinational Arms industry (AALLMAI).

Proof positive that people are still, seven weeks on, losing their heads.

 

[RD2003]

Proof positive that people are still, seven weeks on, losing their heads.

Haven't you got work to do supporting your own ruling class and 'democracy'?

There's a struggle to the death going on with, thankfully, much more of the latter to come.

 

[platinumsage]

If only we could just all get along peacefully without any need to defend anything (preferably by everyone in the world agreeing with me on everything).

 

[RD2003]

If only we could just all get along peacefully without any need to defend anything (preferably by everyone in the world agreeing with me on everything).

The first part of your sentence used to be the ultimate aim of lefties. Now they get behind their rulers in the hope that once current problems have been settled they can get on with the task of overthrowing them, That they will have been more firmly entrenched if victorious is merely a problem for the future, when all the pitfalls and problems that beset the radical left of the past will somehow have been settled for good.

The first task is to somehow see the defeat of the really bad guys, so that we can then concentrate on the merely bad guys.