War propaganda, 'Realists' and neocons, and the denigration of the war sceptics

[krtek a houby]

In actual fact I do. Most people on here disagree with me, or purport to. As is their right.

And yet, when pressed about the invasion and the right for the people to defend themselves against Putin's forces - you clam up or divert.

 

[8ball]

This war has clearly been marketed as mass entertainment.

I want my Bayraktaaaar…

 

[krtek a houby]

This war has clearly been marketed as mass entertainment. It's Love Island for the bloodthirsty righteous.

And you're above all that, naturally. Being older, more sage like and wiser than the rest of us who just lap it up? Without question. Because we have to love it, really, we don't know any better, right? We're eager for the conflict and the more death and destruction, right?

 

[RD2003]

And yet, when pressed about the invasion and the right for the people to defend themselves against Putin's forces - you clam up or divert.

I've said many times before that my view can be found over a range of threads.

Your own pseudo-moral righteousness counts as debate only tenuously. But it's clearly impotant to you, and you have a right to it.

 

[krtek a houby]

I've said many times before that my view can be found over a range of threads.

Your own pseudo-moral righteousness counts as debate only tenuously. But it's clearly impotant to you, and you have a right to it.

You're not that important, you know.

It is vaguely interesting how you can't/won't give a straight answer, endlessly claiming it's to be found elsewhere in your output.

If you're set on having a blog here, fine. But be honest and just admit that you want Ukraine to accept its fate.

 

[RD2003]

You're not that important, you know.

It is vaguely interesting how you can't/won't give a straight answer, endlessly claiming it's to be found elsewhere in your output.

If you're set on having a blog here, fine. But be honest and just admit that you want Ukraine to accept its fate.

Where do I claim importance? We're all just passing the time on here, our views counting for nothing whatsoever.

Why do you keep going on about blogs?

 

[krtek a houby]

Where do i claim importance?

Why do you keep going on about blogs?

Avoiding the question. Again.

 

[RD2003]

Avoiding the question. Again.

You haven't got any questions that haven't already been answered. Perhaps you should put the telly on. There might be some reports about the blood of the righteous being shed. And somebody else to get angry with. There are loads to go before you get that world in your own image.

 

[krtek a houby]

You haven't got any questions that haven't already been answered. Perhaps you should put the telly on. There might be some reports about the blood of the righteous being shed. And somebody else to get angry with. There are loads to go before you get that world in your own image.

Image?

You're either under the influence or are unable to answer.

It's a simple question, should Ukraine sit back and accept its fate?

 

[RD2003]

Image?

You're either under the influence or are unable to answer.

It's a simple question, should Ukraine sit back and accept its fate?

I don't know Ukraine's fate. Neither do you or anybody else.

And nothing that arises out of this war is permanent. Nothing is permanent.

 

[krtek a houby]

I don't know Ukraine's fate. Neither do you or anybody else.

And nothing that arises out of this war is permanent. Nothing is permanent.

In other words, Ukraine should allow the invasion to proceed, unopposed.

 

[RD2003]

In other words, Ukraine should allow the invasion to proceed, unopposed.

Yes, that's clearly what I've said. Indeed, spelt it out for dullards.

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes, that's clearly what I've said. Indeed, spelt it out for dullards.

Well, you seem very shy and frightened to answer a simple question. If you cloud your answers in fog and such, it might mean different interpretations to the one you wish to convey.

Let's assume it's the complete opposite of the suggestion that Ukraine should accept the invasion.

Are you in favour of Ukraine defending itself?

 

[RD2003]

Well, you seem very shy and frightened to answer a simple question. If you cloud your answers in fog and such, it might mean different interpretations to the one you wish to convey.

Let's assume it's the complete opposite of the suggestion that Ukraine should accept the invasion.

Are you in favour of Ukraine defending itself?

Answer a question I've answered many times before? Why?

I can't help the fog. People will keep using these fogger things, post (?) Covid.

 

[krtek a houby]

Answer a question I've answered many times before? Why?

I can't help the fog. People will keep using these fogger things, post (?) Covid.

You keep saying you've answered it many times before.

You're lying.

You've not answered it at all.

Are you in favour of Ukraine defending itself?

 

[RD2003]

You keep saying you've answered it many times before.

You're lying.

You've not answered it at all.

Are you in favour of Ukraine defending itself?

Yeah

 

[krtek a houby]

Yeah

See, that wasn't too hard was it?

Now, you can quit hectoring and acting all superior to those dullards, excitable foreigners etc who also are also in favour of Ukraine repelling the invaders.

 

[RD2003]

See, that wasn't too hard was it?

Now, you can quit hectoring and acting all superior to those dullards, excitable foreigners etc who also are also in favour of Ukraine repelling the invaders.

Ukraine breathes sigh of relief and goes to bed comforted.

 

[Raheem]

See, that wasn't too hard was it?

Now, you can quit hectoring and acting all superior to those dullards, excitable foreigners etc who also are also in favour of Ukraine repelling the invaders.

You didn't ask if he was in favour of Ukraine defending itself successfully.

 

[RD2003]

You didn't ask if he was in favour of Ukraine defending itself successfully.

Good point. Crucial to the outcome of this stupid and wholly avoidable war.

 

[krtek a houby]

You didn't ask if he was in favour of Ukraine defending itself successfully.

One step at a time.

 

[krtek a houby]

Good point. Crucial to the outcome of this stupid and wholly avoidable war.

Interesting.

How could Ukraine have avoided being invaded?

 

[RD2003]

Interesting.

How could Ukraine have avoided being invaded?

You already, or should do, know about the negotiations which Zelenskiy was apparently in favour of pursuing. Unfortunately, he allowed himself, perhaps due to political immaturity and inexperience, to be outmaneouvred by nationalistic hardliners in the regime he unexpectedly found himself heading up.

No perfect outcome would have resulted from the negotiations, but the again, nothing is ever perfect, and peace, however imperfect, is always better than the hell of war.

But the hardliners in the Ukrainian regime have gained the most imperfect of outcomes. They do care deeply about 'their peope' though.

 

[krtek a houby]

You already, or should do, know about the negotiations which Zelenskiy was apparently in favour of pursuing. Unfortunately, he allowed himself, perhaps due to political immaturity and inexperience, to be outmaneouvred by nationalistic hardliners in the regime he unexpectedly found himself heading up.

No perfect outcome would have resulted from the negotiations, but the again, nothing is ever perfect, and peace, however imperfect, is always better than the hell of war.

But the hardliners in the Ukrainian regime have gained the most imperfect of outcomes. They do care deeply about 'their peope' though.

"their peope"?

 

[rubbershoes]

But the hardliners in the Ukrainian regime have gained the most imperfect of outcomes. They do care deeply about 'their peope' though.

Several mentions of "hardliners" in Kyiv. The use of the word is intended to paint them as unreasonable.

Would you describe Putin as a hardliner?

Language matters

 

[Supine]

You already, or should do, know about the negotiations which Zelenskiy was apparently in favour of pursuing. Unfortunately, he allowed himself, perhaps due to political immaturity and inexperience, to be outmaneouvred by nationalistic hardliners in the regime he unexpectedly found himself heading up.

No perfect outcome would have resulted from the negotiations, but the again, nothing is ever perfect, and peace, however imperfect, is always better than the hell of war.

But the hardliners in the Ukrainian regime have gained the most imperfect of outcomes. They do care deeply about 'their peope' though.

Do you know the negotiating position that russia went into talks with? It sounds like you don’t.

 

[RD2003]

Do you know the negotiating position that russia went into talks with? It sounds like you don’t.

Yes. Continued negotiation would have been better than the present carnage.

 

[RD2003]

Several mentions of "hardliners" in Kyiv. The use of the word is intended to paint them as unreasonable.

Would you describe Putin as a hardliner?

Language matters

Yes.

 

[Supine]

Yes. Continued negotiation would have been better than the present carnage.

Really? Do you think there was an acceptable landing zone from the position russia took into the negotiations?

Remember, those talks didn’t stop any killing but they held a great deal of risk for the Ukrainian negotiators.

 

[RD2003]

Really? Do you think there was an acceptable landing zone from the position russia took into the negotiations?

Remember, those talks didn’t stop any killing but they held a great deal of risk for the Ukrainian negotiators.

And now they face the risk of all risks, and thousands of innocents pay the price.

Whatever the risk, diplomacy should have been prolonged. Constantly stalling negotiation, drawn out indefinitely if necessary, would have been better than slaughter and carnage.