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Vegetarians! Why aren't you vegan?

pootle

pootle

little moran
I'm a fairly recent convert to not eating animals, mostly on the grounds like I like little animals and therefore don't want to eat them/be cruel to them unneccesarily.

However, the more I read and learn about the dairy industry, the more I find it difficult to square my stance on not eating animals because of the cruelty element but still eating dairy when the dairy industry is pretty facking cruel and unpleasant :(

I've always been a bit wierd about milk and eggs, so cutting them out is not a problem. I've had soya milk on cereals etc for years now, and I can't eat eggs when they are in their basic form eg scrambled, fried, boiled etc but I can choke down milk and eggs when it's in chocolate or cake, wierdly enough :rolleyes:

So fellow vegetarians, how do you square it? And vegans, it looks like hard work being vegan. Eating out has to be quite a nightmare I'd imagine...and no cheese! Is it as simple as what do you care about more - the animals or the cheese?

NB - this is not a thread for people to go on about ridic it is to be veggie so save it as I'm pretty fixed on being a veggie and telling me how delicious the little animals are ain't going to change that! So save it, thank you please.
 
When I was a Vegetarian it was because I didnt fancy eating meat (for 15 years!) not because of any sentimentality over animals.
 
soulfulofsoul said:
You're on the right track, it's all about the cheese.
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Yeah, vegan cheese is the most drepressing thing in the world :(

I was vegan for several years but it was cheese that tempted me back to being a veggie. I do have guilt over cows with mastitis and the slaughter of male calves and try and offset this a bit by buying organic cheese but I appreciate this isn't enough.
 
i've always wondered this about the vegetarians, as well.
they do seem to kill thousands of the male chickens and cows at birth cos they can't get eggs and milk from them. and there is a strange avoidance of veal in this country.
I guess its a small step in the right direction if you are bothered about killing animals for food, at least.

i bet this thread bursts in to flames with in the hour.
 
if you're doing it because you don't want the animals to die and suffer then I think you do just have to see it in simple terms, like you say: what do you care about the most? cheese is just cheese. There are a million yummy foods out there.

Isn't goats milk gotten in less horrific ways? I seem to vaguely remember summet about this.
 
Yer what? Dairy farming's arguably more cruel than meat farming. At least eaters aren't hooked up and milked to painful levels every day, nor are separated from their young on a depressingly regular basis (who mostly go on to be killed/wasted) and are then dumped because they're not as productive any more.

Dairy farming's about as cruel as it gets imo, particularly at the massive, industrial scale end of things. If I could shift - and I wouldn't because I like meat and cooking too much - then I think the only way I could square things morally would be with a vegan diet
 
I used to keep bees. We killed tens of potential queens per hive every year, stole their food and replaced it with sugar.

So honey's out too imo.
 
It's all about the Cheese. Vegan cheese tastes bad....and I like my stinky blue on crackers.
 
tarannau said:
Yer what? Dairy farming's arguably more cruel than meat farming. At least eaters aren't hooked up and milked to painful levels every day, nor are separated from their young on a depressingly regular basis (who mostly go on to be killed/wasted) and are then dumped because they're not as productive any more.

Dairy farming's about as cruel as it gets imo, particularly at the massive, industrial scale end of things.
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This :( thanks for putting it better/explaining than I could tarannau.

Good grief. Last christmas I was putting 3 varieties of meat on the Christmas dinner table. Now look at the state of me! :rolleyes:

I can manage soya milk, yogurts etc no problem but vegan "cheese" is just plain wrong! What this about goats cheese then?
 
yeah, but a vegan christmas would be rubbish on the whole. No turkey, no chocolate, no cake, no cheese.

You've got to have standards and pleasure for Chrimbo I reckon. And I'm happy enough explaining the ethical compromises I make on my meat eating, dairy light and fish restricted (mostly line caught and unfarmed) diet.
 
pootle said:
Good grief. Last christmas I was putting 3 varieties of meat on the Christmas dinner table. Now look at the state of me! :rolleyes:
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Don't look at it like that though pootle... the reasons you've given seem fine, and it's what you want to do.

Maybe you can ween yourself off cheese slowly? I did it with chocolate (once). The less you eat, the less you want. Not sure if it works with cheese, but it's worth a go.
 
pootle said:
I'm a fairly recent convert to not eating animals, mostly on the grounds like I like little animals and therefore don't want to eat them/be cruel to them unneccesarily.

However, the more I read and learn about the dairy industry, the more I find it difficult to square my stance on not eating animals because of the cruelty element but still eating dairy when the dairy industry is pretty facking cruel and unpleasant :(

I've always been a bit wierd about milk and eggs, so cutting them out is not a problem. I've had soya milk on cereals etc for years now, and I can't eat eggs when they are in their basic form eg scrambled, fried, boiled etc but I can choke down milk and eggs when it's in chocolate or cake, wierdly enough :rolleyes:

So fellow vegetarians, how do you square it? And vegans, it looks like hard work being vegan. Eating out has to be quite a nightmare I'd imagine...and no cheese! Is it as simple as what do you care about more - the animals or the cheese?

NB - this is not a thread for people to go on about ridic it is to be veggie so save it as I'm pretty fixed on being a veggie and telling me how delicious the little animals are ain't going to change that! So save it, thank you please.
Click to expand...


A number of reasons..... I'm not especially 'pro animal rights', just not a fan of meat production and the whole industry. I loathe vegan cheese and I like cheese and milk, though soya milk sweetened with apple juice is lovely. I don't get all angry and wadical about animals being eaten for food, there's far more pressing concerns than people eating meat, so that's also an added reality for me.
I can't stand vegan shoes, never seen a decent pair of ox blood dm's, dark tan brogues, loafers or brogue boots made for vegans.
I also appreciate the 'hypocrisy' of being a lacto-vegetarian. As tarannau said, dairy production, by which we/I mean intensive 'industrialised' dairy production, is arguably more 'abusive' than simply slaughtering a cow and eating it. Drinking milk merely 'squeezed' from a cows udder isn't de facto cruel. pumping them full of hormones to maintain lactation however......
 
tarannau said:
yeah, but a vegan christmas would be rubbish on the whole. No turkey, no chocolate, no cake, no cheese.
Click to expand...

Apart from the fact that lots of chocolate is vegan and many cakes can be vegan yeah you're right.... :rolleyes: And Turkey is tasteless shite anyway
 
Where can I find vegan chocolate?
If you're looking for vegan chocolate, here are a few brands of chocolate that are dairy-free, whey-free and casein-free. You can find these chocolates just about anywhere, including at your regular grocery store. These are what I call "accidentally vegan", that is, they aren’t marketed as vegan or labeled as such, but they contain no animal ingredients and are vegan.

"Accidentally" Vegan Chocolate brands:

* Chocolove Dark Chocolate and Orange Peel
* Newman’s Own Chocolate Bars: Sweet Dark Espresso and Sweet Dark Orange, regular and organic)
* Ritter Sport - Chocolate Mint (the light blue ones) and Marzipan (the red one)
* Green and Blacks Organic Chocolate – Dark Chocolate
* Organic Equal Exchange Chocolate All flavors except for milk chocolate

More Vegan Chocolate Brands
Here are a few brands of vegan chocolate that are specifically made to be vegan and are marketed and labeled as such. Most of these vegan chocolate brands are organic and fair-trade as well.

* Endangered Species Dark Chocolate (most, but not all flavors)
* Sunspire and Tropical Source (chocolate chips and chocolate bars)
* Whole Foods Brand Chocolate Chips
* Whole Foods Brand Dark Chocolate, and Dark Chocolate with Almonds
* Dagoba
* Plamil Organic Vegan Chocolate (fair trade)
* Terra Nostra Rice Milk Vegan Choco Bars
* Sjaaks
* Bug Bites
* Xan Confections (low-calorie and low glycemic for diabetics too)
Click to expand...

You can have vegan cake too :cool:
 
tarannau said:
Tastes like shit though.
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No, it doesn't. Good soya tastes every bit as good as milk - I've lost count of the amount of times I've served tea with soya in it to guests and they've failed to notice the difference.

Unless you buy free range turkey from a reputable farm, most turkeys are a freak show abomination.
 
pootle, I think the goat thing is that they produce milk without having to be pregnant or given birth. You'd have to look into it though, I'm no expert. And there would still be loads of issues surrounding it, depending on how they were sourced, cos they're still farmed innit.
 
I tried some soya cheese slices melted on my quorn burgers at the weekend.

Tasted like a tramp had wiped his dick on the bugers.:(
 
Because I really like cheddar cheese. Mind, I don't actually have milk in any other form, but that's due to lactose intolerance and dislike more than anything else, and my eggs are nearly always from hens that I have seen with my own eyes.

It's a compromise. Rather than consume milk, eggs, honey and meat, I cut out the meat. We all make compromises every day - unless anyone on here is a fruitarian.

And yeah, this thread is going to go KABOOM! pretty soon. It's always the way.
 
pootle said:
And ritter marzipan. Yes! :cool:
Click to expand...

I'm not a vegetarian/vegan but if I was to become one I think I'd go vegan rather than veggie ... lactose intolerant (all types). Not allergic, but wouldn't want to have it as my primary protein source.
 
Shoes were my biggest problem as a vegan too.

I love soya milk ... always thought of dairy as both unhealthy and dodgy ...

I went from vegan (20 years) to vegan plus fish - catching and killing one (or at least being prepared to) was a neccessary step for me to add fish to my diet.

After the fish came dairy and eggs in cakes and stuff, and this time of year I usually end up treating myself to some blue cheese - but my diet is still basically vegan - I love veggies and stodge above all else...
 
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