US election 2020 thread
- Thread starter petee
- Start date
nogojones
spelling is overrated
I was thinking of just setting up a download parlour page, but just stuffed full of malware in the download.
nogojones
spelling is overrated
I was crying at that point. Though I think it would have been even better if he invoked Kindrgarden Cop rather than Conan
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
If only she'd have run in 2016 instead of hillary ...
nogojones
spelling is overrated
Pure laughter the second he got his toy sword outWith laughter or due to his pathos
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Treacle Toes
Time
The fucking sword...
Pretty clever prop placement/analogy to use though given he's trying to get through to people who seem to have accepted a con-artist reality TV show President as the closest thing there is to God.
I mean..they all wanna be Conan right?
gosub
~#
Well she did help to pay for the development of one of the vaccines AND you would n't get batshit tweets at all of the day and night - what with her long held views on working hours
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
I've been following this thread and am genuinely wondering to what extent youtube has affected/emboldened these people (Trumpists). With the way its algorithms work, some body could start out searching "Are vaccines really safe?" and in a very short space of time could find themselves having the most out-there Qanon (etc) stuff suggested to them. It monetises people's curiousity/vulnerability/discontent etc, and I wonder how much of the blame lies there, as much as the orange bellend himself. I'm not that clued up the ins and outs of American politics and society to know how much difference it would've made if youtube didn't work that way.
(Go easy - this is my first post.)
(Go easy - this is my first post.)
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The bit about his dad was powerful, though. That's how you compare Trump to Hitler. Kind of went downhill from that point...The fucking sword...
Pretty clever prop placement/analogy to use though given he's trying to get through to people who seem to have accepted a con-artist reality TV show President as the closest thing there is to God.
I mean..they all wanna be Conan right?
Smangus
comatose at a desk
The fucking sword...
Pretty clever prop placement/analogy to use though given he's trying to get through to people who seem to have accepted a con-artist reality TV show President as the closest thing there is to God.
I mean..they all wanna be Conan right?
He should have finished with "Crom bless America" though. That would have made it
gosub
~#
Said up thread that I had had to find a replacement Marty1 type feed...bloke I found on youtube started by saying youtube insisted he disavowed the 6/1 but IF that is actual youtube policy this fella couldn't have been further from the spirit of that if tried (and yet youtube still hosts). Amidst his playdown / Justification / whataboutary
though was one thing that got me thinking ...number of people participating who doing it to generate content.
Gil Scott Heron was wrong
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The medium has changed, so the speed that ideas can circulate has increased. But is it so different from before, back when propaganda was spread by pamphlets? There is at least easier access to other information now if you want it. Clearly a lot of people don't want it and don't want to hear other points of view or information.
The internet and social media were still in their infancy really in 2001, but that didn't stop conspiracy theories about 9-11 from getting around very quickly. In countries where people have had more limited access to social media in years past (and where many are illiterate), like Pakistan, all kinds of conspiracy theories have flourished for a long time.
This article is from 2018 and talking about Pakistan, but it feels like it could just as easily be about the US.
That last bit interests me when thinking about who might be the most vulnerable to persuasion by misinformation. The hard core who stormed the Capitol were very certainly higher income in the main.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
Was awaiting for the usual "I understand your anger", "lets focus on fighting the enemies that have forced us into this situation". didn't come.
Tristan Harris, the creator of the documentary The Social Dilema, is good on this. He explains it very well. It goes something like this: the more emotionally catchy/charged content is, the more it is likely to be viewed. The more it is likely to be viewed, the more money the creators of the video make. Youtube, in simple terms, recommends stuff you might be interested in - but then the content of such videos is where the emotionally charged dopamine hits comes in. So you have the hybrid of an algorithm that recommends you more of the same, and the videos themselves fighting for views so are filled with emotionally charged content. Harris claims this is a lethal blend and the only way you will solve it is if you completely restructure the algorithm, similar to what they have done in Taiwan, where the social media companies are obliged, I think, to balance out what they recommend people. In summary, you can spend 6 hours on youtube exploring your political views, and not stumble across one other single opposing view. The Rabit Hole. Now there are I suppose good Rabit Holes to fall down: literature reviews, comedy podcasts, fitness, etc. And not so good ones - Qanaon, etc. So you're right, according to Harris. Check out his lectures on youtube, lol.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Massively, I'd say. I only watched one Sidney Powell / Lin Wood speech (admittedly it was for an hour or so) not that long ago and still get presented with similar things.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I can see how changing algorithms might help, but the whole argument feels a bit video nasty to me.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah yeah. You were just doing research.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
On the Qanon Annonymous podcast (brilliant and very funny, btw), they often assess the social media (Facebook etc) timelines of people who have gone full Qanon. From the analysis I have heard, their early posts - in the vast majority of times - are very neutral politically. They might have the odd God Bless America, or the occasional comment on something major happening in the news. Then things begin to change - there is often a middle period where they will quote Qanon stuff with things like "Hey, you should read this. Interesting." or, "Guys - check this out - worrying if true!" I.e. not fully committed. Curious, but otherwise still showing pictures of family days out and interior designs in their house, etc. Few months down the line they are literally putting up memes saying that Obama drinks babies' blood and Hillary is a Satanist. Then it's all "The day of reckoning is soon here" "Where we go 1, we go all". I.e Full Qanon. Cue teary facetime rants that they put up on facebook, etc. Full of satanists, shadowy deep states, etc. The Rabit Hole.
I have seen this happen to a very close friend. He was always in the middle politically and honestly was more interested in football, going out, and films than anything else. On his facebook page today he has a meme with a Zombie drugged and laying on the floor with the words above, "The Great Reset is Underway." He now goes on anti mask marches, believes that Bill Gates created the virus. He has lost nearly all his friends. Again, the rabbit hole.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
It's almost four years old now, but this article about youtube recommendation algorithms has stuck in my head: Force Fed — Real Life
If you want something that goes a bit deeper, I would recommend New Dark Age as being a very very good book about tech and how it shapes our world.
mauvais
on reddit or something
One way you can think of it is a 'force multiplier'. This is a military term and it means, like a lever, you can do more with the same number of people and effort. Night vision and GPS, for example.
Internet services are the same thing to these people. The content algorithms quicken the grift, bring many more people in, provide confirmation bias for free, and make money for creators. Without them, the same things are achievable - the 'chans' are not themselves algorithmic, for example, nor necessarily reliant on the external, e.g. advertising - but all this stuff makes it much easier, cheaper, more potent.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Does sound very similar to progression into a cult. Which is unfortunate because the main way I've heard of getting someone out of a cult is to show up inconsistencies between what the cult leader says and does, or says on different occasions. Only here there are multiple cult leaders: Trump, Q, lots of randoms ...
magneze
🎧
The algorithms do seem to be a problem. Changing them is hard because they're basically feeding these companies bottom line. Or are at least believed to.
Perhaps it's also just the idea of connecting everyone to everyone else that was a bad idea. Just look at the horrific stories from the Facebook moderation farms.
Perhaps it's also just the idea of connecting everyone to everyone else that was a bad idea. Just look at the horrific stories from the Facebook moderation farms.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
There's some huge money to by having a successful youtube channel. Gamers who films themselves playing video games - some are easily making 40k a month.
That podcast I mentioned earlier - Qanon Anonymous - a fairy niche satirical and social commentary podcast...$30k a month through Patreon.
People who make the content have a very real financial interest in making it as capturing and charged as possible.
That podcast I mentioned earlier - Qanon Anonymous - a fairy niche satirical and social commentary podcast...$30k a month through Patreon.
People who make the content have a very real financial interest in making it as capturing and charged as possible.
Treacle Toes
Time
You are absolutely right....it was powerful and real.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Connecting everyone to everyone is also a fantastic thing, though, with amazing possibilities for exchanging information and ideas. And for getting out subversive messages from places in genuine strife - eg the role of the internet in the Arab Spring.
BigMoaner
What A Load of Old Bollocks
He was always very socially well adjusted - very well liked in a large group of friends. He is a millionaire after having built up a air conditioning business. Hadn't read a book in his life, but was very funny and naturally bright.
He left our main whatsapp group after people started telling him to shut up about loon stuff. This was after about three weeks of him daily uploading covid denial. When people in the group started to catch covid or knew people who had, it turned very nasty and about six people just said "look mate, fuck off." His main friend now, a guy he goes on marches with, believes that Biden is a clone. And that aliens are in charge. This is all true. He has two kids that he sees half the week, and I honestly worry about what it must be like to be raised around someone who believes in this sort of thing.
I am thinking about a good time to reach out to him, but I have a fear that he could become abusive. I can't be dealing with that, I have enough going on.
I am hoping that he will start to explore other, more reality based avenues of interest/thought.
Sad.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I have a mate who I'm sure believes half that shit although I've not talked to him for a while (for that reason 
). He believed it years n years ago with the moon landings and colloidial silver and stuff. We just talked about other stuff - if he brought it up I subtly changed the subject as soon as I could. We're still in contact because his wife is one of the loveliest, funniest people I've met and is similarly infuriated with him. He's so far down the path I'm pretty sure there's no way back for him
This was while this sort of belief was relatively harmless though. A half-hour analysis of which way the flags and shadows were pointing on the moon was just tedious rather than the dangerous shit that's going around at the moment.
). He believed it years n years ago with the moon landings and colloidial silver and stuff. We just talked about other stuff - if he brought it up I subtly changed the subject as soon as I could. We're still in contact because his wife is one of the loveliest, funniest people I've met and is similarly infuriated with him. He's so far down the path I'm pretty sure there's no way back for him This was while this sort of belief was relatively harmless though. A half-hour analysis of which way the flags and shadows were pointing on the moon was just tedious rather than the dangerous shit that's going around at the moment.
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
Cosplay Zip Tie Guy has had his crylon collar felt.
"The F.B.I. arrested a man on Sunday who was photographed in the Senate chamber clad in military-style clothing and holding zip ties after internet researchers managed to piece together his identity.
Law enforcement officials said the man, Eric Gavelek Munchel, 30, was taken into custody in Nashville on federal charges. One of the officials said the authorities had recovered several weapons. No further details were available. Charges were expected to be announced soon.
Efforts to reach Mr. Munchel before his arrest were unsuccessful. He is one of more than a dozen people charged by federal authorities in connection with the attack on the Capitol."
"The F.B.I. arrested a man on Sunday who was photographed in the Senate chamber clad in military-style clothing and holding zip ties after internet researchers managed to piece together his identity.
Law enforcement officials said the man, Eric Gavelek Munchel, 30, was taken into custody in Nashville on federal charges. One of the officials said the authorities had recovered several weapons. No further details were available. Charges were expected to be announced soon.
Efforts to reach Mr. Munchel before his arrest were unsuccessful. He is one of more than a dozen people charged by federal authorities in connection with the attack on the Capitol."
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