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urban Lib Dem voters! What do you think of what's going on?

scifisam said:
The LibDem politicians were claiming that, if they got in, that'd be a vote for change, and really it would have - the first time in ages that a party other than Labour or Tory was in power and a likely change to proportional representation. It's not exactly anarchy or a revolution, but it would be a definite change. If they won. They didn't.

But they didn't claim to be radical. They're the LibDems, cosy middle-of-the-road people - it'd be weird for them to ever claim to be radical.
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You've been in a coma for weeks, you must have been.
 
I understand you're passionate about the issue butchers, but there's no need to tell people who are arguing reasonably to fuck off.
 
scifisam said:
Really? You sure? I mean, did any of them ever claim it was a radical choice or anything with a similar meaning?
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why are you patronising me?

if i could be arsed, i could look back though my facebook status updates for the exact wording, but yes. maybe they didn't use the precise word 'radical', but that was the gist of it...
 
scifisam said:
There were people claiming to be radical by voting LibDem? Really? No-one I know - not even anything that could vaguely be paraphrased as 'look at me, I'm dead radical I am.'
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Same here.

scifisam said:
They're the LibDems, cosy middle-of-the-road people - it'd be weird for them to ever claim to be radical.
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Spot on, and loads would never dream of voting Labour - in fact I suspect that's why the LibDem vote didn't hold up, too many scared by the idea of them doing a deal with Labour.

killer b said:
yeah, all the libdem voting youngsters i know seemed to think it was the radical option. despite that we live in a city where the lib dems have been propping up a minority tory administration for 5 years... :facepalm:
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Youngsters. :rolleyes:
 
It was hardly a "return to your constituencies and prepare for government" moment ...

But Clegg did clearly say they they were in a two horse race, meaning Liberal Democrats and Conservatives. (excluding New Labour)

It did not turn out that way when the votes had been counted!
 
scifisam said:
There were people claiming to be radical by voting LibDem? Really? No-one I know - not even anything that could vaguely be paraphrased as 'look at me, I'm dead radical I am.'
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I don't believe we know the same people. Your sphere of friends and acquaintances does not equal everyone's sphere of friends and acquaintances.

I have been at pains to be as clear as I possibly can on the point that I am speaking in terms of SOME, not ALL.
 
killer b said:
why are you patronising me?

if i could be arsed, i could look back though my facebook status updates for the exact wording, but yes. maybe they didn't use the precise word 'radical', but that was the gist of it...
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How am I patronising you? It just seem so unlikely. First-time voters might be more enthusiastic than older ones, and they might be pleased about voting for 'change,' but to claim to be radical and a LibDem? Are they fans of oxymorons?
 
scifisam said:
How am I patronising you? It just seem so unlikely. First-time voters might be more enthusiastic than older ones, and they might be pleased about voting for 'change,' but to claim to be radical and a LibDem? Are they fans of oxymorons?
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A young-ish girl I know, 20ish, and a former contact for SP, told me last week that she joined the Whigs because 'they were the most socialist party'.

I don't know where they get this fucking shit from.
 
cesare said:
Is their website good enough for you, for starters?

http://www.libdems.org.uk/latest_ne...orms&pPK=5f5545e6-89d8-4f3b-a8f7-2e83638a0e68
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I thought we were talking about the people, not the politicians. I'm sure the people on that page are LibDem voters, but they're not exactly representative. :D (Also: claiming to have set out 'radical banking reforms' is hardly unique to the LibDems).

Vintage Paw said:
I don't believe we know the same people. Your sphere of friends and acquaintances does not equal everyone's sphere of friends and acquaintances.

I have been at pains to be as clear as I possibly can on the point that I am speaking in terms of SOME, not ALL.
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Of course we don't - but we don't live in completely different worlds, I wouldn't have thought.
 
Did anyone on urban clain that their LibDem vote would be, in any sense, radical? It's a much more easily examined subset, they can be called to answer to it within the debate and, after all, this thread is supposed to be about Urban Lib Dem voters.

Otherwise what you have is those who did vote lib dem explaining themselves, and those who would never have voted Lib Dem not responding to those motivations but to those of a set of voters who I'm sure exist but aren't here.

Why not engage with those who are here and the reasons they had for voting?
 
I'm sure a quick perusal of the "We got Rage Against the Machine to #1, we can get the LibDems into Government" facebook group might provide a fair few examples of people who believed they were voting for a 'radical' agenda.

Let's not get caught up on the semantics of the term 'radical'. It's pretty obvious it refers to a range of lefty, progressive feelings, in this case at least.
 
Proper Tidy said:
A young-ish girl I know, 20ish, and a former contact for SP, told me last week that she joined the Whigs because 'they were the most socialist party'.

I don't know where they get this fucking shit from.
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If you've reduce socialism to being a couple of steps on from being anti-war and pro-civil liberties - it's easy to mistake an ostensibly anti-war and pro-civil liberties party as being the most socialist out of a set of narrow options.
 
Proper Tidy said:
A young-ish girl I know, 20ish, and a former contact for SP, told me last week that she joined the Whigs because 'they were the most socialist party'.

I don't know where they get this fucking shit from.
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Comparing them to the other major parties, I guess; in the time that she's grown up, there hasn't been a party that's more left-wing. That's not saying much for the LibDems, mind.
 
spanglechick said:
Did anyone on urban clain that their LibDem vote would be, in any sense, radical? It's a much more easily examined subset, they can be called to answer to it within the debate and, after all, this thread is supposed to be about Urban Lib Dem voters.

Otherwise what you have is those who did vote lib dem explaining themselves, and those who would never have voted Lib Dem not responding to those motivations but to those of a set of voters who I'm sure exist but aren't here.

Why not engage with those who are here and the reasons they had for voting?
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People have been doing. But the conversation spread out ... there are no rules that prohibit that.
 
sihhi said:
If you've reduce socialism to being a couple of steps on from being anti-war and pro-civil liberties - it's easy to mistake an ostensibly anti-war and pro-civil liberties party as being the most socialist out of a set of narrow options.
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Ooh, get you. I'd love to say either myself or any other socialists had any influence on the woman in question, but she was somebody I spoke to for ten minutes at a Billy Bragg gig and flogged a few papers to over the space of a year, not a former comrade.

I don't think it is an easy mistake either. I think there is a world between the faux-radicalism of the Whigs and class politics.
 
spanglechick said:
Did anyone on urban clain that their LibDem vote would be, in any sense, radical? It's a much more easily examined subset, they can be called to answer to it within the debate and, after all, this thread is supposed to be about Urban Lib Dem voters.

Otherwise what you have is those who did vote lib dem explaining themselves, and those who would never have voted Lib Dem not responding to those motivations but to those of a set of voters who I'm sure exist but aren't here.

Why not engage with those who are here and the reasons they had for voting?
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True.

Vintage Paw said:
I'm sure a quick perusal of the "We got Rage Against the Machine to #1, we can get the LibDems into Government" facebook group might provide a fair few examples of people who believed they were voting for a 'radical' agenda.

Let's not get caught up on the semantics of the term 'radical'. It's pretty obvious it refers to a range of lefty, progressive feelings, in this case at least.
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Well, I did say that the word 'radical' didn't have to be specifically used. I'm fairly sure that the 'radical overhaul of the banking system' isn't the kind of meaning you were thinking of - it wasn't for me; I was thinking of something more like your definition. But that definition doesn't fit in with people getting a song to number 1 either, IMO.
 
Vintage Paw said:
People have been doing. But the conversation spread out ... there are no rules that prohibit that.
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No Really? No one engaged with my reasons, nor Fran's afaics... (and that's off the top of my head). And what's the point of debating with people who aren't here? Who's sposed to answer to it?
 
spanglechick said:
Did anyone on urban clain that their LibDem vote would be, in any sense, radical? It's a much more easily examined subset, they can be called to answer to it within the debate and, after all, this thread is supposed to be about Urban Lib Dem voters.

Otherwise what you have is those who did vote lib dem explaining themselves, and those who would never have voted Lib Dem not responding to those motivations but to those of a set of voters who I'm sure exist but aren't here.

Why not engage with those who are here and the reasons they had for voting?
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Yeah they did, the radicality for them consisted in bringing PR.

We are engaging with those mugs, and we have been. Long before you chose to join in and decide that we haven't been. We did it before the election too. Not after.
 
scifisam said:
Comparing them to the other major parties, I guess; in the time that she's grown up, there hasn't been a party that's more left-wing. That's not saying much for the LibDems, mind.
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But don't you think that is a sad indictment of the political consensus of the main parties and of the Liberals pretend radicalism? I do.
 
missfran said:
Same here. I didn't tell anyone I was going to vote Lib Dem, in order to stave off lectures about wasted votes.

Did you genuinely, really meet actual people who claimed they were being radical by voting Lib Dem? Who was it?
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So you don't do it and therefore no one did. You'd rightly scoff at anyone daft enough to claim this for any other issue.
 
spanglechick said:
No Really? No one engaged with my reasons, nor Fran's afaics... (and that's off the top of my head). And what's the point of debating with people who aren't here? Who's sposed to answer to it?
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Mine neither.

Vintage Paw said:
I'm not trying to invalidate or deny your experiences of LibDem voters, why are you trying to do that to mine?
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I'm not invalidating your experience by asking you to clarify it.

Proper Tidy said:
But don't you think that is a sad indictment of the political consensus of the main parties and of the Liberals pretend radicalism? I do.
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Yup, I do - mostly a sad indictment of what Labour's become.
 
scifisam said:
Link with a couple of cites then, please. It doesn't have to include the word 'radical,' but something indisputably similar.
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Cites -you mean refs of people endlessly saying they'll put up with a tory govt for PR. No, i don't need to ref such a commonly made claim.
 
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