understanding China better

[Jessiedog]

Given the human resource fraternities absurd use of many words and phrases - need I even state specifics on that - read sacking for downsizing etc etc etc - someone of that ilk I am the more suspicious of.

Ahhhh!

Human resources.......

Sewer pipes........

I see where the confusion may lie. Perhaps you haven't read the thread.



But I don't actually do either sackings or downsizing.

Might I refer you to post number 190. (I also linked to another thread on that post that you may enjoy reading and might even care to comment on.)

That might explain a wee bit.

Please forgive me, therefore, if I may seem a little coy on occassion. I don't have much in life and thus little to lose. The little I have tho' is important to me.

Nevertheless, I do feel that I can recognise what a spade is when I see one and am also able to clearly communicate my experience, despite the complex and paradoxical nature of the enigma that is modern China.

And it is these complexities, at fela's behest, that I am compelled to endeavour to unconceal.




Edited to add: Please, exosculate, tell us about your own experience(s) of China. I'm sure It'd be a valuable contribution to this thread.



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Good to hear it. I do have a problem with the use of certain words which are politically loaded to describe the largest population on the planet as one homogenous group.

Well, if despite my repeated explanations, you are still hung up on that, then so be it.

If from all I've written on this thread, that's the only bone of contention you have (and let's face it, it's the only thing you've even commented on,) then......

......I reckon I'm off to bed now and definately won't sleep tooooooooooooo badly.



We're kind of on the same team politically in case you've missed it.

Blessings to you and yours exosculate.


And blessings to all.



Woof

 

[Loki]

Night Jessie



Whinney

 

[Jessiedog]

Night Jessie



Whinney

Aye!



Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

What Jessie says is true. And as someone who has a degree in Chinese and has lived in China for four years I can confirm that Jessie is not only someone whose opinions about China I respect but also someone whose knowledge about modern Chinese politics and economics surpasses that of anyone I know.

Kin'ell mao!

Easy does it.



D'y'reckon I could get a job at SOAS?

s/he may have gender identity issues

No I Don't!!!




































































































You bitch!



Woof

 

[exosculate]

Well, if despite my repeated explanations, you are still hung up on that, then so be it.

If from all I've written on this thread, that's the only bone of contention you have (and let's face it, it's the only thing you've even commented on,) then......

......I reckon I'm off to bed now and definately won't sleep tooooooooooooo badly.



We're kind of on the same team politically in case you've missed it.

Blessings to you and yours exosculate.


And blessings to all.



Woof

Sorry - no hard feelings intended. I am having major problems with the whole Chinese free market miracle (and associated language sets connected with it) thing at the moment.

 

[fela fan]

Sorry - no hard feelings intended. I am having major problems with the whole Chinese free market miracle (and associated language sets connected with it) thing at the moment.

exosculate, that is fine, but it needs another thread mate. This thread is not supposed to be about this. It's one that was designed to keep mainline china politics out of the picture, as represented by western media, and see what picture posters on urban could paint.

You've just come in with comments that may be right, but it's not doing the thread any favours.

 

[fela fan]

... regardless of any mob mentality attempting to stifle others viewpoints - as exhibited by people like you.

What?

Chill out man. Don't you know i often put up with just what you describe here?

No way, i don't do none of that, i deal with it.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

jessie, renegade, anyone...

what's censorship like with emails? One girl has been trying to get hold of me a few times, but she always gets a failure notice come back to her.

A letter got through to me from her and i have now emailed her two times, but also get failure notices. It's feasibly i can't read her handwriting - only on one digit mind - but for the moment i just wonder... i mean i am very clear with giving out my email address.

she has given me a yahoo email address, and she lives and works in kunming.

I don't know, I've never had any problems with hotmail getting sent back or anything.

Hmm.

Yahoo can work a bit crappily here though.

 

[Jessiedog]

Sorry - no hard feelings intended.

Ahhhhh!

The red mists are lifting.

Hello exosculate. How're you doing?

What's the weather been like in there?







Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Found oout today that China Mobile (I think it's now the worlds biggest Telco,) currently has 224 million mobile phone subscribers (there are nearly 400M in total in China) and is adding them fast - 3.65 million NEW subscribers in August alone.

Astonishing really!





Woof

 

[maomao]

Kin'ell mao!

Easy does it.



D'y'reckon I could get a job at SOAS?

Well seeing as I didn't study any modern Chinese politics or literature 'anyone I know' doesn't actually include many people. So probably not.

 

[Jessiedog]

Well seeing as I didn't study any modern Chinese politics or literature 'anyone I know' doesn't actually include many people. So probably not.

Bugger!!









Woof

 

[Rock Bottom]

Sorry - I have a major problem with someone referring to the entire nation of China as a group of entrepreneurs. It is so ridiculous I can hardly believe my disbelief.

Obviously, as he has since pointed out, JD was making a generalisation here, but there is something about Chinese thought which is in many ways incomprehensible to us. The Chinese have extremely close links to family, community and heritage - both in the present and the future. In many ways, these "units" are quite selfish in their persuit of wealth, but on the other hand, this has a historical precident, which I am sure you are aware of (re: mass starvation / cultural revolution etc).

The typical Chinese person that I meet here cannot comprehend either my lack of ambition or my lack of forethought for my future generation. They equate this with either immaturity or irresponsibility. However, I am similarly shocked by the motives that Chinese go into business - totally divorced from any interest in the subject matter, but purely centred on maximum profit.

Many of the Chinese people that I associate with have an entrepreneurial sideline outside of their full-time job, or are constantly looking for such opportunities.

It may be a good word (entrepreneur) for a sector of people in the industrialised zones. Its an appalling word to describe the vast majority of Chinese people.

If we ignore the semantics and definitions, and concentrate instead on the attitude of the people, you will find that everyone (okay, a generalisation) in China is on the make in some way or another, through honest means or otherwise. The poor fight for their basic requirements, and the middle-class and rich are too aware from recent history of the consequences of being poor. Most Chinese could be described as entrepreneurial simply because they continually aspire for more, and refuse to settle into a particular social class such as people in the west have been prone to doing for the last few decades.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Yes RB, and it amazes me just how much people want to get more and more money. A friend of mine, for instance, has landed a top job working for ACE (Northern Consortium). I believe that with that, alongside his side-work for IELTS, he's pulling in around 25,000 RMB a month. That's about 1700 quid a month. Even in the UK, outside of London, that's not a bad salary. And this is Wuhan, where most people get 70 quid a month. This is the most my friend has ever made, whether in the UK or China. But his wife is still saying she wants him to earn more money!

Mrs RD does seem different in this respect. Indeed when i talk about getting some extra lessons on the side to earn some more, she's not usually that keen for me to do too many, as I'll be too tired.

 

[exosculate]

Obviously, as he has since pointed out, JD was making a generalisation here, but there is something about Chinese thought which is in many ways incomprehensible to us. The Chinese have extremely close links to family, community and heritage - both in the present and the future. In many ways, these "units" are quite selfish in their persuit of wealth, but on the other hand, this has a historical precident, which I am sure you are aware of (re: mass starvation / cultural revolution etc).

The typical Chinese person that I meet here cannot comprehend either my lack of ambition or my lack of forethought for my future generation. They equate this with either immaturity or irresponsibility. However, I am similarly shocked by the motives that Chinese go into business - totally divorced from any interest in the subject matter, but purely centred on maximum profit.

Many of the Chinese people that I associate with have an entrepreneurial sideline outside of their full-time job, or are constantly looking for such opportunities.



If we ignore the semantics and definitions, and concentrate instead on the attitude of the people, you will find that everyone (okay, a generalisation) in China is on the make in some way or another, through honest means or otherwise. The poor fight for their basic requirements, and the middle-class and rich are too aware from recent history of the consequences of being poor. Most Chinese could be described as entrepreneurial simply because they continually aspire for more, and refuse to settle into a particular social class such as people in the west have been prone to doing for the last few decades.

I think even by your own admission generalisation is the key word in that prose.

 

[exosculate]

Ahhhhh!

The red mists are lifting.

Hello exosculate. How're you doing?

What's the weather been like in there?







Woof

Alright - feeling a bit entrepreneurial today - had an overwhelming feeling last night that I needed a bigger house and car - don't know whats come over me.

 

[Jessiedog]

Alright - feeling a bit entrepreneurial today - had an overwhelming feeling last night that I needed a bigger house and car - don't know whats come over me.

House?

Car?



You property-owning, capitalist roadster you!





Woof

 

[Rock Bottom]

I think even by your own admission generalisation is the key word in that prose.

generalisation

n .......2: the process of formulating general concepts by abstracting common properties of instances [syn: abstraction, generalization] 3: reasoning from detailed facts to general principles [syn: generalization, induction, inductive reasoning] 4: (psychology) transfer of a response learned to one stimulus to a similar stimulus [syn: generalization, stimulus generalization, stimulus generalisation]

I am fast approaching my 31st birthday, and have a wealth of life experience to pass on to anyone who cares to listen, and my "generalisations" are based on nothing more than statistical analysis :

I have learnt not to place my head between the teeth of an alligator, under the possibly mistaken generalisation that it might choose to close its jaws.

I have learnt not to give money to beggars, based on the generalisation that they will not use my money wisely.

I have learnt not to cross a road without looking both ways under the generalisation that the cars might not stop.

I have learnt not to purchase a CD by Enya due to the generalisation that everything I have heard from her up till now has been total crap.

Let's not confuse generalisations - based on real life experiences - with stereotypes - which are based on pub conversations, misinformation, and predudice.

 

[fela fan]

Generally speaking rock, i think you got that about right.

But aren't generalisations a crime...!

 

[chinchilla]

On the lighter side of life in China, many drivers are getting lost in Shanghai because they bought fake in car GPS systems loaded with fake maps.

An increasing number of drivers in Shanghai are having trouble getting to their destinations when the rely on their car's GPS navigation system because many electronic maps installed are fake, the Shanghai Daily reported.

The government is aware of the problem but is at loss over how to handle it because there are no statutes on its books to deal with such a modern phenomena, the newspaper said Thursday.

Although the Chinese Academy of Surveying and Mapping granted eight companies the right to produce electronic navigation maps only six months ago the number of counterfeit, and misleading, maps exceed genuine ones.

The report did not make clear whether the companies themselves were to blame.

"Generally a GPS device costs about 10,000 yuan (1,233 dollars) but a fake one equipped with a counterfeit electric map can be available for several thousand yuan or even less," said Benita Wei, from Shanghai Changxiang Computer Co, one of the eight companies producing maps.

Though the accuracy is doubtful many buyers opt to spend less, Wei said

Yahoo story

 

[Jessiedog]

Today is the 56th anniversary of the founding of the Peoples Republic of China.

Happy Birthday.

Woof

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

...I would like to live the last words to Eric Idle :

...I like Chinese food.
The waiters never are rude...

Well, all I can say is: Eric Idle's never been to Wong Key has he?

Although I must admit, I've been a bit upset when I've been because they haven't been really rude to me. Don't know why not.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

...People are mocking me for my comments on the place but I think if the USA used the death sentence the way that China does (China doesn't just execute it's murders it executes it opiate addicts)...

Erm, you mean, as opposed to the good ole US of A, which executes innocent people for being, mostly, black and poor and therefore unable to pay for adequate legal representation?

Mmm, yeah, good point, Bear! It's bad to kill opiate addicts, but good to kill black people and/or poor people! I'm soooooo relieved to know that the USA is so much more superior than China.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Obviously, as he has since pointed out, JD was making a generalisation here, but there is something about Chinese thought which is in many ways incomprehensible to us.

OMG, don't get me started on 'face'.

I had a really hard time getting my head round that, when it's something that's almost diametrically opposed to my values. I prefer the truth and honesty, whereas I found Chinese people would have no qualms about lying in order to save face. To a westerner, that seems wrong and dishonest, but to a Chinese there's nothing wrong with it, if it's done in order to save face. Saving face takes precedence.

And the Chinese people I dealt with and encountered were no doubt appalled because I'd have no qualms about losing face, 'pride comes before a fall' and all that, a little bit of embarrassment never hurt anyone... I'd rather tell the truth, even if that meant losing face, which must have been quite shocking to a Chinese.

I used to get really wound up and annoyed if someone lied to me, whether it was a stupid little thing or something really important. It took me ages to resolve that conundrum, and that was by realising that it wasn't wrong, I had to accept it was simply different.

...The Chinese have extremely close links to family, community and heritage - both in the present and the future [* I think you missed out a bit here] . In many ways, these "units" are quite selfish in their persuit of wealth, but on the other hand, this has a historical precident, which I am sure you are aware of (re: mass starvation / cultural revolution etc)...

* "... and the past."

Chinese have a *huge* thing about lineage, respecting (kind of worshipping) their ancestors. Even gay Chinese men will often want to marry and have children, not just because of the taboo surrounding homosexuality and societal pressures, but because they feel it's a filial duty, it's not something they feel they have to do but it's something they want to do, to have children and continue the family line, there's a very real sense of patrilineage, of a continuation of the family through the ages, not just in terms of the present and the future, but they sense it as something that arcs back through hundreds and thousands of years. Despite the cultural revolution in which many of the family records were lost, some families hid and still have those records, which go back generations.

 

[Concrete Meadow]

Today is the 56th anniversary of the founding of the Peoples Republic of China.

Happy Birthday.

Woof

"At 50," the old Chinese saying goes, "a person knows his limits; at 60, he becomes deaf."

All the best to the land where my grandparents were born.

And to Jessie, blessings.

 

[Maggot]

Erm, you mean, as opposed to the good ole US of A, which executes innocent people for being, mostly, black and poor and therefore unable to pay for adequate legal representation?

Mmm, yeah, good point, Bear! It's bad to kill opiate addicts, but good to kill black people and/or poor people! I'm soooooo relieved to know that the USA is so much more superior than China.

They aren't executed just for being black and poor.

 

[Serguei]

Erm, you mean, as opposed to the good ole US of A, which executes innocent people for being, mostly, black and poor and therefore unable to pay for adequate legal representation?

I don't think Chinese are very familiar with the idea of adequate legal representation in the first place (their legal system is still controlled by local Communist party leaders).

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I don't think Chinese are very familiar with the idea of adequate legal representation in the first place (their legal system is still controlled by local Communist party leaders).

Thank you Sergeui, but having worked as a paralegal for an international law firm in Beijing, I'm well aware of the shortcomings of the Chinese legal system. I didn't make any assertions about there being adequate legal representation or an effective legal system in China. I'm familiar with reports of corruption in court cases, guanxi coming into play, for example 'the BMW woman', internet/journalism, workers' rights lawyers being imprisoned. Heck, even I could redraft the Company Law of China that I have sitting on my book shelf to tighten the law up, it's so loosely drafted you could drive a tank through it.

My point to someone who seemed to be adopting a 'US is almighty and superior' attitude was about the US legal system not being beyond reproach and that it also has flaws, which also result in executions, sometimes of innocent people.

I just don't like that whole arrogant taking the moral high ground stance. And that's not just in respect of the US, I wouldn't even dream of doing it in respect of the UK, what with people detained without trial in Belmarsh, 73 year old women imprisoned because their council tax has increased by more than their pension increase, an anti-terrorism laws abused in respect of an 82 year old man manhandled out of a New Labour conference, an innocent Brazilian man summarily executed on a tube in London...

I think China is far from perfect, but I can't stand Anglo-American superiority and arrogance either.

 

[Rock Bottom]

Has anyone been reading about the new restrictions that Hu Jintao is placing upon the internet, in order to control the flow of information entering the country?

So far, I have not noticed any difference in the websites that I can't access. With enough effort, I can always gather the latest news - at least the international press. I still wish I could access the BBC News page, always my favourite source for what is going on.

What do you think might be the effect of these internet bans? Surely, the current freedom of information via the internet is required for China's assendance amongst the worlds' economic markets, so it would be counterproductive for such measures to be taken?!

What is your take on these measures? Situated in cosy Zhuhai, I see such actions as rather irrational..........