understanding China better

[the B]

Cool...

JD. Glad you liked Hainan. It is stunning isn't it, if not as laid back as the Thai islands. Combine two and you'd have perfection...

Fascinating about the women-men imbalance in HK> The opposite of the mainland, where there aren't enough women to go round.

Not strictly speaking an imbalance (if you are looking at birth rates). More of a problem relating to how rubbish HK women are - and seeing the ones that come over to the UK, not surprised!

 

[pinkmonkey]

The girls I work with in HK are always on a big manhunt everytime we go to the mainland.

I think this thread has explained why. Ta v. much.

 

[the B]

The girls I work with in HK are always on a big manhunt everytime we go to the mainland.

I think this thread has explained why. Ta v. much.

Well, there are a lot of doms... and people will be subs if the price is right.

 

[Jessiedog]

Not strictly speaking an imbalance (if you are looking at birth rates). More of a problem relating to how rubbish HK women are - and seeing the ones that come over to the UK, not surprised!

That's interesting B. Rubbish in what sense and/or compared to.....?



Woof

 

[the B]

That's interesting B. Rubbish in what sense and/or compared to.....?



Woof

Anecdotes and experience suggests HK women are very demanding, typically about as relaxed and laid back as catching avian flu funny!

A word a mate of mine used was 'nag-oriffic'

 

[pinkmonkey]

Well, there are a lot of doms... and people will be subs if the price is right.

Don't get me wrong - they're by no means wealthy, just average by HK standards, they are in their early twenties, both still live at home and are my contacts in the HK office.

 

[the B]

Don't get me wrong - they're by no means wealthy, just average by HK standards, they are in their early twenties, both still live at home and are my contacts in the HK office.

Actually, been meaning to ask about that, what sort of age are you seeing people 'move out' and be independent?

Or is it still 'not until you're married - and even then, maybe not'

 

[Virtual Blue]

Vitasoy is the best soya drink on earth.

In HK the women are really thin.

Canto-pop is shite.

Most Canto-pop singers double up as actors.

Lap-Cheung (Chinese sausages) beats the shite out of Western ones.

What was the question to this thread again?

 

[the B]

Lap-Cheung (Chinese sausages) beats the shite out of Western ones.

Fatty as fuck though!

Oh, Chinese TV - thumbs down. There's also far more 'financial market news' than we get over here in the UK and way less on sports.

 

[pinkmonkey]

Actually, been meaning to ask about that, what sort of age are you seeing people 'move out' and be independent?

Or is it still 'not until you're married - and even then, maybe not'

Not until you're married, that's in the case of pretty much everyone I've worked with.

 

[pinkmonkey]

In HK the women are really thin.

You think so? Don't you think that HK teenagers are a bit porkier than they used to be? There seems to be more cake (and pie) shops than what I've seen in Yorkshire (where I'm from). Cakes and pies, bloody everywhere in HK.

 

[Virtual Blue]

Oh, Chinese TV - thumbs down. There's also far more 'financial market news' than we get over here in the UK and way less on sports.

And the gameshows...my god the gameshows are pretty awful. Where do they get their ideas from? Too much stupidness, erratic bodily movements, bad music accompanied with big smiles. All this makes me so damn miserable.

Lap Cheungs fatty? Didn't your grandmother use to say, 'fat is the best thing about meat?' Damn those Hakka farmers!

You think so? Don't you think that HK teenagers are a bit porkier than they used to be? There seems to be more cake (and pie) shops than what I've seen in Yorkshire (where I'm from). Cakes and pies, bloody everywhere in HK.

There were always cake shops in HK.
Cakes everywhere and those char-siu buns are well nice.

I think culturally, HK women (yep I'm generalising here) are skinny, arse-less slags (except from my mum and grandmother) who spend too much time trying to be cute and giggly. Damn those Bap-pors!

As for the men...my god...don't get me started...

 

[pinkmonkey]

And the gameshows...my god the gameshows are pretty awful. Where do they get their ideas from? Too much stupidness, erratic bodily movements, bad music accompanied with big smiles. All this makes me so damn miserable.

Lap Cheungs fatty? Didn't your grandmother use to say, 'fat is the best thing about meat?' Damn those Hakka farmers!



There were always cake shops in HK.
Cakes everywhere and those char-siu buns are well nice.

I think culturally, HK women (yep I'm generalising here) are skinny, arse-less slags (except from my mum and grandmother) who spend too much time trying to be cute and giggly. Damn those Bap-pors!

As for the men...my god...don't get me started...

I was thinking more of the European style cake shops and all the British style pies - am I going mad? There seem to be far more than they used to be....

 

[Virtual Blue]

As long as it's not Gregs...I haven't been to HK for a while but I heard obesity is on the rise in HK and China.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Not strictly speaking an imbalance (if you are looking at birth rates). More of a problem relating to how rubbish HK women are - and seeing the ones that come over to the UK, not surprised!

Yeah I find the women from the middle/north of china much better looking than southerners...

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

You think so? Don't you think that HK teenagers are a bit porkier than they used to be? There seems to be more cake (and pie) shops than what I've seen in Yorkshire (where I'm from). Cakes and pies, bloody everywhere in HK.

They're getting porkier even in the mainland...

 

[Jessiedog]

C&P'd this from the latest WP&P Nepal thread..........

Originally Posted by niksativa
just a crystal ball thought about China's long term direction: as far as i am aware there are many different "races" within the borders of China, and many have long wished for their independence. The Chinese attempt to dismantle communism makes an iteresting comparison with USSR - Gorbachev and Yeltsin deserve much criticism for the way they went about "fazing" out communism. In fact they didnt faze out at all, and basically dropped it like a ton of bricks, making the rubel utterly worthless and throwing much of the country into worse povery than before.

- However, with their new capitalist-style system came fragmentation of the coutnry into traditional regional groupings, the product of which is many "new" countries around the Russian periphery. China's move to capitlaism, and the governments hold in power is much tighter and controlled, but I dont think it is that unlikely that longterm we may see a similiar fragmentation take place within the Chinese borders.

Pure speculation along an infinite timeline, but this would change the dynamic for Nepal considerably.

Hey nik,

Frankly, I can't (ever) see this happening. Certainly not to anything like the extent that occurred in the former USSR.

The country is poorer and less separatist than any of the Soviet peripherals were. The independence movements in Tibet and Xinjiang have been all but crushed. And vast migration of ethnic Han (Chinese) means that Tibetens and Uigurs are now all but minorities within their own provinces. All officials posted to/appointed in each province are loyal to the Party and the provinces are extremely closely watched for the merest signs of unrest.

When policemen can still send anyone to a forced labour camp for three years hard slog, without the need for a judge, court, trial, or any other authority, well, it certainly makes it easier to handle any "issues". Many hundreds/thousands are jailed within Tibet and Xinjiang, some have been languishing for decades.

Regarding Taiwan. Should the island look like it's preparing for independence, China will prepare for war. Should Taiwan declare independence, China will attack. I believe this unequivocably. The country is constutionally obliged to do so and will not hesitate - no matter the consequences. Further, should Taiwan provoke China to such an extent, I doubt it would muster much sympathy with the US which has clearly stated that it wants to see the status quo maintained and does not support ANY unilateral moves by the island.

The major problem is that China has staked too much on "territorial integrity", essentially selling it to the people as the most pressing social issue and HUGELY bigging up the return of HK and Macau in recent years (helps keep the masses from focussing on the REAL problems the country faces. China simply cannot afford to allow any loosening of its hard line. To do so would demonstrate to the Chinese people that the govt. "cannot hold the country together". This would spell the demise of the govt. the demise of the CCP and China descending into civil war and chaos.

I can't see it happening.

China will gradually democratise at it modernises over the next twenty years and this will lead to the eventual absorbsion of Taiwan, but prolly not before the middle of this century. For Tibet and Xinjiang, any realistic prospect of separation is non-existant - no meaningful countries would aid either province in such an attempt. Internal supression would be both brutal and decisive.

The continued "Hanification" of minority provinces and the (slowly) emerging benefits of economic freedom and infrastructure development further undermine seperatist tendencies.

I see a lot of rocky times ahead for China - there will be increasingly large-scale uprisings, riots, disturbances, etc. though not about autonomy/independence, but the more usual reasons of non-payment of wages, consfication of land by officials, endemic corruption accross all sectors of govermant and business/industry, the poisoning and degratation of village/community environments through industrial effluence and and pollution, the emerging VAST disparities of wealth across the country, both within and between provinces.

Last year, according the the State Ministry for the Interior, there were some 74,000 violent demonstrations across the country. The top guy of the ministry is now saying that wealth/income disparity is the prime cause and that unless wealth is spread more evenly, and other social problems dealt with far more rapidly, such disturbances will increase vastly in number and, that, if not tackled, the spiralling number of such incidents will threaten the very survival of the CCP before the end of this decade. And THAT'S the OFFICIAL line - you can be sure things are actually worse in reality!

Some of the incidents reported this year have involved thousands of villagers battling hundreds of police and security officils over days at a time after having "seized" the local government officials office, barracaded the village and burning all arriving police vehicles. Dozens were killed in some incidents.

That said, I thing China will pull through, will hold together in its current form and will emerge as a modern, thriving, giant of a global economic power.

I just spent a few days up in Zhuhai, a thriving south coast industrial city of several million. The rate of development never fails to astonish me. If you're away for a year you'll have trouble finding your way around upon return. Away for five years? You won't recognise the place at all as the one you previously visited (old buildings come down in two weeks and big, shiny, new ones go up in three months flat - factories, schools, offices, shops, light industrial, it just doesn't stop). Away for a decade? Where before, you stood in the middle of the countryside, surrounded by paddy fields as far as the eye could see, for miles in every direction, there's now a metropolis of five million or more people - at least half are immigrants from poorer provinces, mostly young, female, factory workers.

It's happening now and it ain't stopping for nobody.

The CCP have a tenuous hold outside of Beijing. Most of the south and east coast of the country consists of overlapping fiefdoms being milked by local officials, outside the radar of the centre. That said, the govt. through it's petty officials right down to village level, maintains a sprawling, if fragmented and decentralised grip across the country. Even if the left hand is unaware of the right and the central nervous system has limited control.

It's a mess, but an unbelievably exciting one. The east and south of the country (not to mention the commercial and political centres (Shanghai and Beijing respectively,) are vibrant, noisy, pushy, busy, hungry for business, hungry for growth and ready to face the world. There is a real sense among people that finally, at long, LONG last, their time is coming.

It is.



Woof

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

But the South West is still where you go if you want to hang out, go to some cool bars, chill out, and generally relax

 

[Jessiedog]

But the South West is still where you go if you want to hang out, go to some cool bars, chill out, and generally relax

Sure, but don't get me wrong. Personally, I had a great time in Zhuhai. Got a friend who's been there a year and has carved a nice wee niche.

Oh, and did we have a good "relaxing" time. Good food, good beer (at 22 pence a pint ) and a bunch of cool young peeps from all over China to hang out with and chat with in MandoCantoEnglese.

Some very nice weed from Xinjiang cheap, reasonable quality pills aplenty.

Karaoke/disco birthday party at a cavernous disco (with private room - although the main rooms were spinning good sounds, our karaoke room was variable in musical output).

Lying flat out, peaking, in the large, beautiful, grassy, tree strewn, city park at 2:00 am - safe as chips.

Chatting business late into the night over Peking duck.



Hanging out at a shared apartment with perhaps a dozen relaxed peeps, Chinese and western gathered for the evening. Beer/weed/pills/chat/laughter. A tangled mix of ethnicities from across the country and the world. All eager to share, listen and learn.

Daytime lying in the park tracking pill fueled images of men, women, children, rabbits, dogs, warriors, skeletons, milkmaids and Mandarins as they dance among the clouds.

Superb meal for four - chicken, fish, clams, veg, beer, bits and bobs and all fer ten quid all in!

Staying home and chatting shite on Sunday night. Just coz.

A hop across to Macau this morning and then down to the Macau/HK ferry and back to the "big city" for a late lunch.

Relaxed?

I feel positively restored! A very worthwhile weekend.

It's all good!



Woof

 

[fela fan]

jessie, sounds all pretty much like bangkok.

Until dictator thaksin got into power that is...

[i think there's some irony in there somewhere]

 

[Jessiedog]

jessie, sounds all pretty much like bangkok.

Until dictator thaksin got into power that is...

[i think there's some irony in there somewhere]

Not exactly like Bangkok - It really is kinda unique.

BTW fela, you find may find some of the stuff here on the MADE IN CHINA thread interesting .



Woof

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Sounds great, JD. Wuhan isn't really that sort of place.

However, even Mrs RD is sick of Wuhan now, and she likes zhhai, so maybe I will try and find a job there next year. And then we can have a China urbanites meetup!

 

[Rock Bottom]

Sounds great, JD. Wuhan isn't really that sort of place.

However, even Mrs RD is sick of Wuhan now, and she likes zhhai, so maybe I will try and find a job there next year. And then we can have a China urbanites meetup!

Shit! Just found this thread by accident! What's it doing in World Politics / Current Affairs?? Most of it seems to be about pills, weed, and getting fucked up in China - not that I know anything about that.

Jobs going at my current school, RD. Jobs going everywhere. I don't think I'll be going anywhere fast either. Just been offered the DoS position at my school, during my two week doss, for which I had so many high hopes, but ended up just being cups of tea, watching DVDs in my underpants, and still sweating my nuts off....... Okay, I've said too much.

RD - DVD recommendations - Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Clean (with Maggie Cheung), The Machinist........ a load more to get through. Unfortunately, I have to work again on Monday....2 week doss cut short. Fuck........Work is the curse of the DVD, underpant-wearing, sweating, dossing classes. Happy Teachers' Day!

 

[fela fan]

Shit! Just found this thread by accident! What's it doing in World Politics / Current Affairs?? Most of it seems to be about pills, weed, and getting fucked up in China - not that I know anything about that.

I put it here mate coz i wanted a picture of china to emerge based on urbanites experiences, one that might be at odds with westerner's perceptions of the country and her people, no doubt entirely gleaned from western media.

If it means chinese people like weed and pills, then that might be news to many who may see them as some far off weird people who are commies at heart, and so on.

C'mon, inform urbanites of the china story mate!

 

[fela fan]

Not exactly like Bangkok - It really is kinda unique.

BTW fela, you find may find some of the stuff here on the MADE IN CHINA thread interesting .



Woof

[hedonism on tap was kind of what i was thinking...]

Fun thread to read that, you put it well!

 

[Rock Bottom]

I put it here mate coz i wanted a picture of china to emerge based on urbanites experiences, one that might be at odds with westerner's perceptions of the country and her people, no doubt entirely gleaned from western media.

If it means chinese people like weed and pills, then that might be news to many who may see them as some far off weird people who are commies at heart, and so on.

C'mon, inform urbanites of the china story mate!

Ok, since you insist.......

....The single, most strange experience that has happened during my year in China (actually, the man chasing another man down the road with a samuri sword was pretty strange), was when a friend and I were invited to a private room in a disco in downtown Zhuhai by a Macanese cop and his many attractive female friends. He laid some lines of K down on the table, and while normally I would refuse, we thought it rude not to oblige him......

......Some 40 minutes later, I am attempting to snort another line but I can't quite bring the straw to the mirror. A woman assists me. I look up. Guess who it was??? The Waitress!!!

......Some 60 minutes later, I manage to make it to the toilet, with considerable help from the Bouncer (yes! Helpful bouncers!), I can't align myself with the nearest urinal. Guess who helps me???? The toilet attendant!!!

Drugs are very much recognised within discos as a part of life. K is big here in Zhuhai and Shenzhen. Prostitutes are everywhere too. However, I wouldn't for a second get too complacent. I have heard stories about how the police clean things up periodically, two or three times a year, probably when the gangs haven't paid up or something (wild, probably incorrect guess).

China is much more laidback than people would imagine. There are laws, and there are "laws". China is a country of massive contrasts and conflicts. Capitilism Vs Communism being high among them.

A famous saying from Deng Xio Peng : "Whether it be a white cat or a black cat, whether it catches mice is what is important". That about sums China and its duplicity up in a sentence.

 

[fela fan]

rock, good to hear that asia is still so good at providing hedonistic journeys for those so inclined. Thailand unfortunately has developed rather too much in the direction of the west, and so fun has been accordingly taxed higher and higher.

It's still there for sure, but much more underground. However, other countries still oblige.

I came to thailand coz at the time china was still virtually impossible to travel in for a westerner, and it was china that always fascinated me.

Unbelievably, having sat virtually on its border for 14 years, i've still not made it over there yet. Coming soon tho, i can feel it!

 

[Rock Bottom]

rock, good to hear that asia is still so good at providing hedonistic journeys for those so inclined. Thailand unfortunately has developed rather too much in the direction of the west, and so fun has been accordingly taxed higher and higher.

It's still there for sure, but much more underground. However, other countries still oblige.

I came to thailand coz at the time china was still virtually impossible to travel in for a westerner, and it was china that always fascinated me.

Unbelievably, having sat virtually on its border for 14 years, i've still not made it over there yet. Coming soon tho, i can feel it!

Fela, I imagine China would be much of a disappointment for most people - unless you travel to the South West - Guanxi and Yunnan (I have not been, but I have heard from reputation), or the North and North West (Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia). Most places are either built-up and polluted, or otherwise, are extremely primitive.

I have been to Thailand - only for a couple of weeks - and it seems to be the shit. Nice food, friendly people, sun all year, beaches etc.....China doesn't really make the mark as far as I'm concerned.

I'm sort of stuck here for various reasons. However, China does grow on you over time, once you get used to the way employers deal with you, and once you make the right contacts. I pretty much know Zhuhai inside-out now, and don't imagine facing a situation that I might find difficult. Like Thailand, the people are wonderful, but unlike Thailand, have a curiousity about me which is usually (but not always) healthy.

So come, and make your own impressions. Look beneath the surface, and you may find the positives amongst the surface negatives.

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

Shit! Just found this thread by accident! What's it doing in World Politics / Current Affairs?? Most of it seems to be about pills, weed, and getting fucked up in China - not that I know anything about that.

Drugs are an essential aspect of world politics!

Cool. I may well be interested. I asked Mrs RD earlier about moving to zhuhai if I could find a decent job there, she said it was a good idea.

RD - DVD recommendations - Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, Clean (with Maggie Cheung), The Machinist........ a load more to get through. Unfortunately, I have to work again on Monday....2 week doss cut short. Fuck........Work is the curse of the DVD, underpant-wearing, sweating, dossing classes. Happy Teachers' Day!

What's the holiday like at your school? One good thing where I am is that, because I've renewed my contract, I've had 3 months' paid holiday this year, plus may and october.

I've been back at school for just over a week now. Lessons going OK.

One of the local TV stations came in to record my class the other day. The programme will be shown on Wuhan TV this Sunday

HappY Teachers Day!!

 

[upsidedownwalrus]

I put it here mate coz i wanted a picture of china to emerge based on urbanites experiences, one that might be at odds with westerner's perceptions of the country and her people, no doubt entirely gleaned from western media.

If it means chinese people like weed and pills, then that might be news to many who may see them as some far off weird people who are commies at heart, and so on.

C'mon, inform urbanites of the china story mate!

They actually have a strange attitude to weed. They believe it's comparable to heroin. Whereas ketamine is pretty common.